Race/Ethnicity Questions 171-180

THE QUESTION:
R180: Why is it that when a black person is successful and moves to the suburbs, some black people accuse them of “selling out,” as if they have betrayed their race?
POSTED APRIL 14, 1998
Simon M., 32, white <btmspm@aol.com>
Metro Detroit area

ANSWER 1:
Some black people do sell out. By that I mean they deny who they are and try to act as if they aren’t part of the black community. Some people do that by moving out to places where there are no other blacks or very few. I live in the suburbs, but I am not a sell-out. I am proud of my family and our cultural heritage. I think there is a difference in the way a person who has given up their identity as a black person conducts themselves vs. someone who wants to live in a nice place and be successful. All the black people I know want to do better for themselves and their families. They aren’t sell-outs. They just want a good life for themselves. There is nothing wrong with that. It is the denying of who you are as a member of your culture that I think creates the sell-out idea in people’s minds.
POSTED APRIL 26, 1998
Carmela, 29, black <pecola@hotmail.com>
Atlanta, Ga
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THE QUESTION:
R179: Why do the majority of black males have a sexual fixation on overly large female buttocks? It seems like the bigger the better.
POSTED APRIL 13, 1998
Heavy E., 49, Harrison Township, MI
(See R216 for related question.)

ANSWER 1:
Through my personal experience, the fixation with female buttocks with black men is partly genetic. As a black male who lived in all-white communities until the age of 15, I know I was fascinated with the female rump at an early age. Bigger doesn’t necessarily mean better. Having a big bootie is nothing if the total package is not in alignment. If you have a big behind and a big stomach, that isn’t attractive. Now, if you have a big behind and a nice figure, you’ll definitely get noticed. There are some people who have no taste and just grab whichever is the biggest. And if the behind is full of cellulite and sloppy, that is a turn-off also.
Brother Number 1, 27 <jak0arl@jak10.med.navy.mil>
Jacksonville, FL

FURTHER NOTICE:
It’s not just black men who like round, shapely buttocks. In fact, historically, Greeks made monuments to shapely rear ends. Sculptures were made that highlighted this part of a woman’s anatomy. The reason it seems as though there is a fixation is … that black men are notorious for speaking of not just the breasts, but the rear end as well. I’ve asked about this myself, and it’s the “package” that is desired. One that includes a thin waist line, firm breasts and a round behind.
POSTED APRIL 18, 1998
Apryl P., black <apryl@mail-me.com>
Oak Park, MI

FURTHER NOTICE 2:
Many African women are descendants of the “Bantu,” a beautiful tribe of well-proportioned people. Secondly, most African-American men appreciate all of a woman and not just her “rump.” Few African men I know are seriously interested in the type of razor-thin, lifeless women plastered across the movie screens and magazines; they are good to gaze at, but no fun to be with. Finally, you might want to recheck pictures of Marilyn Monroe. She had quite a set of hips. Seems to me Anglo men were quite taken by this part of her anatomy.
POSTED APRIL 21, 1998
Martin, Dallas, Texas
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THE QUESTION:
R178: I’d love to hear from people whose names come from the African American tradition of (to me) lovely made-up names: Shaquille, Shaniqua, etc. I’ll bet your feelings about your name go through interesting changes over time. Any stories?
POSTED APRIL 13, 1998
Will H., white, 48, Dallas, Texas
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THE QUESTION:
R177: I am curious about the language differences between blacks and whites. They seem to be getting further apart over time, especially in slang words and non-verbal aspects of communication (gestures, posture, expressions), even names for kids. What is driving this?
POSTED APRIL 13, 1998
Steve B., 30, white <steve_01@bigfoot.com>, Oxford, MI

ANSWER 1:
Language and customs evolve in any culture. I don’t think it’s because blacks want to distance themselves more from whites. The culture is simply evolving. When we take the time to learn about other cultures, they don’t seem so distant after a while.
POSTED APRIL 18, 1998
Kara, Japan

FURTHER NOTICE:
The answer is television. Young blacks see stereotypical slang on TV and emulate it. I am black and had never heard some expressions except on TV, although they were later picked up by young African Americans. An example is the word “dy-no-mite,” which entered into popular use after the J.J. character on the ’70s sitcom Good Times made it famous. Among young whites (and later among young blacks) is the “valley girl” speech, in which all vowels seem (to me) to be switched, making the speech incomprehensible. I believe that originated in a movie.
POSTED DEC. 22, 1998
R. Stewart, black <rostew@aol.com>, Chicago, IL
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THE QUESTION:
R176: Why do foreign people (mainly from the Middle East), when dealing with an American, speak their own language to each other and then answer the American in English?
POSTED APRIL 13, 1998
Lou, 28 <hescores@tir.com>
Detroit, MI
(See R169 for related question.)

ANSWER 1:
There might be a lot of reasons, but personally, if I do that (I try to avoid it if possible because I was told that some people consider it rude and impolite) it’s simply because talking in our native language is a lot easier than having to find the right words in English – we’ll have to do a “double-thinking” that way (you don’t do your thinking in any foreign language, do you?) and it eliminates the possibility of my partner misinterpreting what I said. In short, it is more convenient and practical. Others may do that because they don’t want the people around them to know what they’re talking about – for various reasons, from safety to the topic being sensitive. Basically, I think there is nothing wrong with it (talking in one’s native language); it is not rude or impolite as long as it’s not intended for gossiping, insulting or making fun of the other person. Chi Yu, 26, Chinese female
POSTED APRIL 18, 1998
Indonesia
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THE QUESTION:
R175: I am a 15-year-old Native American male. Why is it that African Americans I know feel as if the world owes them something? All of my people’s lands have been taken and abused, and the other Native Americans I know don’t act half as mad at the world as blacks.
POSTED APRIL 13, 1998
Anishnabe, <pantherdered@yahoo.com> Near Ann Arbor, MI

ANSWER 1:
First, none of your ancestors were brought to this country against their will. Second, none died on those horrible slave ships and drowned during the voyages. Third, our women and children were raped and brutalized. Our men were hung from trees for something as silly as looking at a white woman. We built this country through free slave labor and have yet to be given reparations for our work, unlike other ethnic groups, such as Jews, for the Holocaust. It’s obvious you’ve never seen footage of “Eyes On The Prize” or “Four Little Girls.” Not yet have I heard any African Americans downplay the suffering and plight of Native Americans because we both have suffered at the hands of the Native European, yet you feel we’re the ones upset, when we both should be at the 500 years of suffering we are still feeling the effects of.
POSTED APRIL 16, 1998
Charles W., black, Arlington, VA

FURTHER NOTICE:
The world does owe us something. It owes me the freedom to walk into a store without being followed around. It owes me the freedom to buy an expensive item without having my ability to pay for it being questioned. It owes black males the freedom to drive or walk down the street in peace without fear of police harassment or abuse. It owes black children decent schools. In fact, the world owes all of us; black, Native-American, Hispanic, Asian and white. It owes us the freedom to live our lives without prejudice, stereotypes and stigmas. I guess some of us choose to fight for that freedom more vehemently than others.
POSTED APRIL 16, 1998
Denise, 26, black, Bronx, NY

FURTHER NOTICE 2:
To Charles W.: Contrary to what you believe, many other ethnic groups that have come to the United States did not do so voluntarily. Many were forced to flee their homelands because of tyrannical rulers. You don’t think Europeans weren’t killed for something as silly as poaching in the King’s forest? Or maybe they were running from starvation. Whatever the reason our ancestors got here, it’s in the distant past. As for reparations, don’t you have to start at the beginning – which would be the Africans who captured black people and the Arabs who traded them?
POSTED APRIL 18, 1998
B. Bachli, 38, white, Temperance, MI

FURTHER NOTICE 3:
To B. Bachli: The one thing I’ve noticed in the whole slavery and reparations debate is white people’s insistence on calling attention to the fact that blacks were sold into slavery by Africans. That is an acknowledged fact within the black community; a few West African leaders have even apologized to African Americans for this participation. While this fact is partially true (some slaves were kidnapped by Europeans who secretly went into the interior against African rulers’ wishes), it still does not absolve European slave traders from culpability. It also does not even remotely explain the incredibly brutal treatment forced on Africans upon their arrival here in America and the Western Hemisphere. Let’s not forget, European immigrants were free when they arrived here. Even those who were indentured servants were allowed to go free after a certain number of years. In my opinion, this is the root of the debate – our treatment here on these shores. America is the superpower it is today because of the tremendous economic benefits of more than 250 years of free labor and an additional century or so of low-cost labor. Some in the black community feel we should be paid back wages, not only for the free labor of the past, but also for the way African Americans are disproportionately impoverished in lieu of this country’s economic supremacy. I have not decided how I feel about the issue, but I do think the debate is a valid one.
POSTED APRIL 21, 1998
Denise, 26, black, Bronx, N.Y.

FURTHER NOTICE 4:
Virtually every civilization, from the Romans to the Greeks to the Mongols to the Chinese to Egyptians, Jews, Assyrians and Babylonians, practiced slavery and land acquisition. Even the American Indians raided each other’s villages for horses, women and children. And what about blacks who owned slaves in America? And who invented slavery – the world’s first humans, who evolved in Mesopotamia – Africans. Should Africans apologize to the world for inventing that institution? And where is the only place slavery still exists? The Sudan. And have African Americans apologized to Native Americans for their role in those people’s extermination, or have they instead lauded the “Buffalo Soldiers” in film and literature? When African Americans pay Native Americans reparations, then they can ask me for money.
POSTED APRIL 21, 1998
Steve, Kan.

FURTHER NOTICE 5:
To Charles W.: Indians were forced from their own homelands – marched to reservations at gunpoint by the white government that wanted their land.

Indians were enslaved before blacks, by the Spanish who explored this country, starting with Columbus. They were forced to build the missions, which then forced the conversion of the Indians to Christianity. The absolute power of the explorers led to massacres and cruelties that fully equaled anything black slaves suffered.

By the way, in defense of European Americans, even in the time of Columbus, there were already sane voices protesting the horror and barbarity being practiced, just as there were all through the mistreatment of Indians and black slaves. Unfortunately (just as in present times), these people were ignored in favor of wealthy businessmen and governments who wanted to make as much money as possible by whatever means necessary.
POSTED APRIL 23, 1998
Colette, white <inkwolf@earthlink.net>
Seymour, WI

FURTHER NOTICE 6:
I think all the cultures robbed, enslaved, murdered, stolen or stolen from should stop trying to say who suffered the most. As a person of mixed origin, the Cherokee and African heritage in me doesn’t stop to point the finger and say, “I suffered more than you.” I really think that in some ways we all have a lot of pain in our souls about slavery in the Americas. We cannot heal ourselves by pointing fingers at anybody but ourselves. We all have to own up to how messed-up slavery has rendered American culture. We cannot deny the past; it happened, we were all involved in some way. We have to make peace with our own pain and try to help each other heal. We should acknowledge the pain of other cultures, not ridicule it. (However, I think both African and Native Americans got the rawest parts of the deal.) We just have to learn from the past, teach ourselves forgiveness and grow beyond it. Just as a rape victim has to grow beyond the pain and trauma, so do those of us who were raped, robbed and destroyed as cultures. And those of us who were rapists, robbers and enslavers have to own up to what we did.
POSTED APRIL 26, 1998
Carmela, 29, African American <pecola@hotmail.com>
Atlanta, GA

FURTHER NOTICE 7:
To Steve from Kansas: African Americans without question participated in the wars against Native Americans. My ancestors were ignorant for doing so. In their zeal for full acceptance into American society, they were involved in many things they should not have been. But the relationship between Native Americans and African Americans is more complex than that. Many Native Americans were known to harbor runaway slaves. And it is a fact that a large portion, maybe even a majority, of black Americans have Native American blood or ancestry. Some blacks I know have entire sections of their family trees that are Native American. My maternal great-grandmother was one.

I do think your point of view was interesting and informative. However, we can all claim the invention of slavery, because, regardless of the races we are now, we are all descendants of those people in Mesopotamia. But when reparations are discussed by black people, they are talking about this country and the larger society’s lack of acknowledgment of our role and contributions. I would challenge you to give the issue deeper thought. Members of every race have at some point willingly participated in discrimination against someone else. But regardless of who was involved in whose extermination or enslavement, the real issue is who reaped the benefits? Who has all the land, all the money and all the power?
POSTED APRIL 26, 1998
Denise, 26, black, Bronx, N.Y.

FURTHER NOTICE 8:
To Steve from Kansas: Slavery was created in the area known today as the central region of Africa. Many people think African slavery and European slavery were the same. If you read Basil Davidson’s books on African civilization, you will find that the system of “slavery” was vastly different than that of the European style. When Africans enslaved other Africans, they often maintained the same positions they had when they were free – if a general from one kingdom was captured by another, he kept his position because he was most useful to the kingdom he was captured by as such. When Europeans and Euro-Americans captured an African warrior, did they make him a warrior in his new world? No, he was made to perform back-breaking work in the fields and subjected to brutal treatment.
POSTED APRIL 29, 1998
Kara <micheka@rocketmail.com>
Japan

FURTHER NOTICE 9:
The ancestors of a majority of white people in the United States came to this country after the Civil War. It would seem extreme to ask them to pay reparations for slavery. And even in the unpleasantness of the 1860s, there were two sides. My own ancestors arrived here from 1638 (Massachusetts) to 1918 (Michigan). The issue of slavery doesn’t seem pertinent to me. Better we should worry about what happened after 1900 if we want to talk about reparations or who owes whom what. People in this country have been treated unjustly. We have yet to become what we can be. There are things that we may be able to do to address those injustices, but I don’t think slavery is one of them.
POSTED APRIL 29, 1998
Chas. P., 54, white, Dayton, OH

FURTHER NOTICE 10:
To Denise: Maybe the complicity of West African blacks in the slave trade is acknowledged by the black community, but I have never heard it acknowledged in general release. You are 100 percent right that Africans’ involvement in capturing the slaves doesn’t absolve Europeans from their part. The whole point is that nobody can ever be absolved or blamed. All the perpetrators are long since dead. I don’t in any manner mean to condone slavery, and I truly am dismayed it ever happened, and am thankful that I never have had to live through it. But it was an accepted practice in the time period when it happened, and for thousands of years before. Doctors used to use leeches to treat people then, too. Do we do it anymore? No, we know better. Do we use slave labor anymore? No, we know better. Yes, it was abysmally wrong. But can we change it? No. Slavery and thousands of other rather stupid acts were committed over the history of mankind. We can’t undo a single one of them. When I, as a white of European descent, think of slavery, I don’t think of it as “we.” I think of it as “them.” I didn’t do it. Matter of fact, I bet no living person did it. How then, can I, as a white American, owe you anything? It would be much better for the black population to accept it as a relic of the past, unfortunate as it is, and concentrate on what you can do to help yourselves today. You remain shackled to the concept of slavery until you can look ahead, not behind.
POSTED APRIL 30, 1998
B. Bachli, 38, white, Temperance, MI

FURTHER NOTICE 11:
It is pointless to spend time arguing about which ethnic groups have suffered and which are responsible for the suffering. Does anyone really believe throwing money at this deep-rooted problem will in any way solve it? Once reparations are paid to one group, who can deny another from demanding the same treatment? Who should pay? European-Americans? I should pay for the mistakes of people with whom I share only an ethnic or cultural bond? My family immigrated from Ireland in 1865 and settled in New Jersey, then New York, and to my knowledge had hardly enough money to feed themselves, let alone buy and sell slaves. I do not feel the idea of reparations is well thought out, and will create more problems than it will solve. This country has and will continue to make strides in racial equality. This journey is far from over, but it is a test this country must endure together in order for there to ever be true racial harmony.
POSTED MAY 2, 1998
D.C., 28, Irish-American, Detroit, MI

FURTHER NOTICE 12:
What bothers me most is that in 1998 I have to teach my two sons that they may (will) encounter racism when they interview for a job, shop in a mall, buy a home, buy a car, rent an apartment, etc. I have to prepare them so that they will not feel as much pain as I did. I shouldn’t have to prepare them for being thought of as second-class. I shouldn’t have to tell them they may not get a job they are qualified for simply because of the color of their skin. What I am most tired of is talking about who suffered the most. Because the people who truly are to blame are dead or close to it. The real offenders cannot apologize, and if living refuse to see their wrongdoings. The world will never be an even playground. We need to accept that and begin to live by the Golden Rule. We are not born hating each other – that is learned from our parents and family initially. I have never seen a white baby born with a KKK hat on. I have never heard a baby’s first word be “cracker” unless it learned it from its family. I am sure people will think me idealistic, and I really used to be. But I am just tired of the hatred and insults and finger-pointing. I want to be free to raise my family in a safe environment and not be denied anything because of the color of my skin. Is that so wrong?
POSTED MAY 3, 1998
C. Lorick, 44 <blackcherrie@yahoo.com>, Jacksonville, FL

FURTHER NOTICE 13:
To B. Bachli: Of course you haven’t heard about it in the general media. Since when do you hear anything in the general media about the black community that is not negative or deals only with our relationship to white people? If you want to learn anything about who we are, you have to use the black media. If you have cable, BET is a good place to start. You’d come to know all sorts of interesting things about black America, Africa and the African Diaspora (this includes Caribbeans, black Brazilians and anyone of African descent in the Western Hemisphere.)

I don’t think you can respect or get along with a person of different ancestry until you learn their background. I enjoy reading about European history, Latin history – all of it. Your advice about us helping ourselves is duly noted. In fact black economic self-determination was the cornerstone of Malcolm X’s teachings.

About forgetting slavery, can’t do it. Never mind that the beliefs that drove slavery continue to direct public policy today. But you can’t have a future without knowing your past. And a people who don’t remember their past are spiritless.
POSTED MAY 3, 1998
Denise, 26, black, Bronx, NY

FURTHER NOTICE 14:
Do people really believe some races are more prone to mistreat others? Think about this: Whites killed white Jews in Germany. Black Hutus killed black Tutsis in Rwanda. Black Muslims oppress white Christians in Africa and Asia. And whites mistreat blacks in the United States. People in our world, past and present, always fear those who are different from themselves, and they almost always react violently to avoid having to adjust to and learn about others. This isn’t about race – it’s about being different. No race has any right to claim moral superiority, because if the situation were reversed, they would be doing the same thing. We all need to work on how we accept people who are different from us.
POSTED MAY 4, 1998
Scott H., 19, white <scotthaile@mailexcite.com>, Abilene, TX

FURTHER NOTICE 15:
To Denise: The reason I’ve heard that information about black involvement in slavery and several other sentiments regarding black relations with whites has not been widely distributed is that they are contrary to the image the black “leadership” is trying to convey. Therefore, the people who would make the contrary statements feel pressure to not state what is on their minds or face some sort of excommunication if they do. I have heard this from blacks, by the way. I have already asked elsewhere on the Y? forum why the black community, especially the middle class and above, don’t do a more forceful job of communicating good things in the media. I agree that to truly know someone, you have to understand their past. But I have always taken that to a personal level. My interest in their background would be to grasp how the past has affected them – as a person, not as a race, or ethnicity, or whatever. I don’t want to get caught up in the generalities about their race. Isn’t that a form of stereotyping? Never would I suggest you forget slavery; it is part of you. I have always thought blacks had an amazing amount of spirituality, which I attributed to having survived slavery. My biggest pet peeve, which I rail against wherever I see it, is wasted potential. Know your past, but don’t let that which happened long ago hold you back. If someone else tries to hold you back, best them, but don’t be the reason yourself.
POSTED MAY 11, 1998
B. Bachli, 38, white, Temperance, MI

FURTHER NOTICE 16:
It is true that Africans were involved in this horrible institution, but I have also heard that many African nations involved in slavery have acknowledged and apologized for the involvement of their ancestors. I cannot let others know how the past affects me as a person without acknowledging my group, too. I am part of a group that makes up who I am as a person. As for self-determination, I am not saying that people of African-descent shouldn’t have it, but sometimes I feel as if they are denied equal access to it. It scares me that in 1998, children are still being taught the same things about African-American people as I was when I was in elementary school. African-American people are doing the best they can to promote positive images of themselves in the media, but unfortunately, when you do not control the media, you have a difficult time controlling the images put out. African-American filmmakers who want to produce atypical films have a very hard time selling their stories to Hollywood. Nobody wants to see films like “Daughters of the Dust” because it doesn’t conform to the stereotypical image of African-American people.
POSTED MAY 21, 1998
Kara, African American, Japan

FURTHER NOTICE 17:
I feel bad about Native Americans and Africans who were killed, tortured, etc. many years ago, but I did not do it and do not feel I owe an apology. It is all in the past. If anyone is still suffering, it is probably Native Americans still living on reservations. The Africans came here with nothing, not of their doing, so what kind of payment do they deserve? I feel slavery should have never started, but payment was deserved only by those who were slaves.
POSTED AUG. 1, 1998
C. Widman, Pine Hill, NJ

FURTHER NOTICE 18:
Saying “my ancestors suffered more than your ancestors” is like saying “my great-great-great-great grandpa could beat up your great-great-great-great grandpa.” It’s pointless because no African Americans living today were slaves, and any money made by the South during slavery was probably destroyed during the Civil War. Also, the Native Americans suffered just as great a problem as blacks, but the way this life works is that the strong own the land, others are just poor. The ancient Britons owned England until the Celts came, then the Romans, then the Normans. And, yes, the losers there got castrated and tortured, too. Where do you think their descendents learned it? And to those who think the world owes you freedom, happiness, etc.: Think again. There has been poverty and misery on this planet as long as we have, so get used to it. Either suck it up and make something of yourself, or somebody is going to make something of you; namely lunch.
POSTED OCT. 22, 1998
B., 22, white male, Kokomo, IN
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THE QUESTION:
R174: Why do many blacks buy beer in 40-ounce bottles? I have noticed many blacks in Detroit carrying them, and this has also been characterized in movies made by black directors.
POSTED APRIL 13, 1998
Mike K., Detroit, MI

ANSWER 1:
It would be my guess that if you wanted to drink some beer but didn’t want to buy a whole six-pack but wanted more than 12 or 16 ounces of beer, you would buy a 40-ounce. They sell them everywhere, and they are inexpensive. Some black Americans drink them. I suppose this is in films because they are portraying reality. Don’t be misled into thinking all black folks drink 40s; some do and some don’t.
POSTED APRIL 1998
Carmela, 29, black <pecola@hotmail.com>, Atlanta, GA

FURTHER NOTICE:
As a college student and clerk in a party store, I can say that it isn’t just blacks who buy 40-ounce bottles of beer. Most 40-ounce beers are bought by white males, at least where I work. Usually, these are men just coming off the job, and they want something to relieve the stress of work. They don’t want to spoil their dinner by drinking too much, so they buy a 40-ounce or 22-ounce to have on the way home.
POSTED MAY 12, 1998
Dave, white male, Marysville, MI

FURTHER NOTICE 2:
I buy 40s because, depending on the brand of beer and where I buy it, it’s a better “beer per dollar” ratio than a six-pack. My motivation is economics.
POSTED JUNE 17, 1998
J., Japanese-American
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THE QUESTION:
R173: Why are there no professional Asian-American basketball players?
POSTED APRIL 13, 1998
M. Richardson <MRICH1947@aol.com>
Baltimore, MD

ANSWER 1:
I am an Asian male and tried playing basketball a lot in high school and into college. Boy, I stunk. Reason: I was too short. There was also the problem of welcomeness. Many of the courts at home were occupied by much bigger white and black men. They did not welcome me. I think I had a good jump shot and lay-up style, but when it came to close play or posting-up I just couldn’t match the height of other competitors.
POSTED APRIL 30, 1998
David L., 25, Asian-American, Chicago, IL
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THE QUESTION:
R172: Why do people from Latin American countries (Argentina and Brazil in particular) speak so loudly when talking on the telephone?
POSTED APRIL 13, 1998
Nuha Kamoo <nkamoo@dttus.com>
Detroit, MI
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THE QUESTION:
R171: Do black people feel Ebonics is a language and should be recognized as such, or do they feel it is just a form of vernacular?
POSTED APRIL 13, 1998
T. Mann, Toledo, OH

ANSWER 1:
I see no need to formally teach Ebonics. Actually, I am against it. I concede it is a form of communication supported by its high level of use particularly in urban, low-income areas, but what justifies the need for reinforcement? This form of communication is used and supported by those who appreciate it. But its value is limited to a specific cultural setting. My children cannot increase their marketability in the work force with Ebonics because it is not the standard language used. Am I willing to acknowledge it as vernacular? Yes. I will be willing to support Ebonics when these same children have mastered standard English and other foreign languages that increase their opportunities to succeed in the marketplace.
POSTED SEPT. 10, 1998
Zawadi, 33, black female, Detroit, MI
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