Dare To Ask Talk And News About Our Differences - This topic has 30 replies, 30 voices, and was last updated 20 years, 9 months ago by
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The reason for this approach of taking whatever suits is because there are – as you will agree having read the lot – masses of contradictory statements in the Bible. So, whichever Christian denomination takes whichever Biblical quote seems to support its particular stance most, be that dogmatic, moral or ethical. Contradictory statements are either downright ignored or subjected to the simplistic qualification that ‘that particular detail is metaphorical/ historically and culturally confined, and therefore should be read as meaning actually something else’ or ‘that is simply irrelevant.’
The authority establishing what should be qualified in such a way, and what read as verbatim divine truth and applied as a rule, is, of course, always the particular denomination whose stance is the issue. The secret is: circular logic cum eclectic reading and presto! You get any results you wanted from any ‘holy book’.
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Name : T27549, Gender : F, Religion : Atheist, Age : 32, City : Munich, State : NA, Country : Germany, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class,Christians are against homosexuality because the Bible is against it. Old Testament, Leviticus 20:13: ‘If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood wil be spilt on their own heads.’ And New Testament, 1st Corinthians 6:9: ‘Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders will inherit the kingdom of God.’ That’s just a couple of the refrences to homosexuality found in the Bible. God is pretty clear that homosexuality is wrong and that it’s not how He created us. I understand how you feel because often Christians make being gay somehow worse than other sins, and that’s not true. However, anything we do that is wrong we need to repent of and ask God to help us change. If you are really a Christian, then you understand the sacrifice Christ made on our behalf, and the depth of sin from which we have been saved. You should want to change, not because somehow you need to be good enough (we can never be good enough), but because you are so grateful for what Christ has done. It is true that God loves His children, but if you continue with this sin, knowing that He has said it is wrong, are you really His child? If you come to him, and ask His forgiveness, He will forgive you. But none of us can continue in our sin without repentance and still claim to be chldren of God. I hope this makes sense. I am sorry for ignorant Christians who you feel are condemning you. Think about it, and feel free to respond to me personally.
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Name : Allison, Gender : F, Age : 18, City : St. Louis, State : MO, Country : United States,I think there isn’t a single answer to this question any more than there is one answer to ‘Why are you a Christian.’ From my observations and experience, the more strongly a Christian holds the view that homosexuality is a sin, the more likely he or she is to be a black-and-white ‘fundamentalist’ thinker, oriented to external authority rather than internal authority. I suspect all of us pick and choose which parts of the Bible to emphasize in our efforts to live a faithful life. But fundamentalists seem less likely to examine their own choices, and thus to grow spiritually. And in spite of their honest efforts to live compassionate lives, as Jesus encouraged, I’d guess they carry extra-large burdens of unhealed (and, true to their orientation, unexamined) hurts.
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Name : Patty-P, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Unitarian, Age : 59, City : Vancouver. British Columbia, State : WA, Country : United States, Occupation : Business management, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class,Picking and choosing what you want out of the Bible is something everyone does. It’s wrong in every case, not just some cases, because in God’s eye sin is sin. God doesn’t differentiate and doesn’t play favorites. In the Bible, there are many references made to sexual impurity. In Romans, Paul discusses sexual impurity and how men should not lay with men. I’m not a big-time authority on this, but I would assume that because it says man should not lay with man, that also means woman should not lay with woman. Now, I will say that in my opinion God doesn’t view lesbianism or gay sex as any more or less of a sin than he does sexual promiscuity of the ‘straight’ variety. As I said, people pick and choose what they want out of the Bible, and many times they feel as if their sin is not as bad as someone else’s because it is THEIR sin. I don’t want to be your judge, because it also says in the Bible that one should not judge another. It says that in Romans, I believe. But, I will say that homosexuality in the eyes of God is wrong, just as many common practices of sexual and spiritual impurity are wrong. Pray for strength and understanding and read many of Paul’s letters he wrote from prison. Especially Romans, it’s like the Bible compressed.
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Name : Clay, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Methodist, Age : 30, City : Kansas City, State : KS, Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,I do not consider myself a stict christian, but after reading about Ms. O’connor it has made me think that maybe we don’t look at the bible as a whole and that she is right. I was wondering if you could support your examples?
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Name : Nicole-Boatright, Age : 19, City : Mayville, State : MI, Country : United States,First off I would like to say this. The bible has been twisted to meet the needs and wants of men. It has been written and re-written over and over again just for that purpose. For example, King James’ Version was re-written to suit King James so he could legally execute his wife. I would not go by what the bible says, I would follow your heart and what you believe is right.
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Name : Doug25643, Gender : M, Age : 29, City : Hickory, State : NC, Country : United States,I’m catholic, and I believe that some people are born gay and some are born straight, which ever one you are is how God created you; in his likeness. Yeah, there are a bunch of places in the Old Testament where the bible says that homosexuality is wrong, but it also says that it’s wrong to drink alcohol, and cut your hair. Where as in the New Testament, Jesus didn’t say one thing about homosexuality despite the fact that he lived in a society where it was extremely prevelant. These people are in someway scared or intimidated by homosexuals and their lifestyle. My guess it that very few of these people actually know gay people, I know it’s hard, but try to take it with a grain of salt. As long as you’re a good person that’s all that matters!
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Name : Nicole20051, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Catholic, Age : 20, City : des moines, State : IA, Country : United States,I too am a lesbin christian and have come across the same problems I have only just came out and my mother keeps telling me its all in my head and if i stop saying it it will go away. The fact is that most christians use their religion as a securety blanket and anything outside of that blanket scares them into thinking that they are going to go to hell. They use it against anyone that is different because they think it will save themselves in the long run. The thing is that god made us this way and since everything is done for s reason it must have a purpose. I can’t help who and what I am and the fact of the matter is its not anyone elses buisness and any real christain wouldn’t be bothered by it because they are not suposed to judge.
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Name : Kris, Alberta, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Bisexual, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 21, City : Edmonton, State : NA, Country : Canada, Occupation : na, Education level : High School Diploma, Social class : Lower middle class,I believe you can interpret passages from the Bible in a number of different ways. People are notorious for taking passages and using them to justify themselves. I pesonally believe God made me gay and since God make me gay, it’s fine with him. Being Gay is as natural to me as being heterosexual is to straight people. I live what I would call a very good Christian life. If God is going to condemn me for being me, then God will condemn everyone. To me the Bible is a guide to live by, a set of guidelines that shows us how to treat others with respect and dignity. To take a passage or two out of the Bible to condemn others is NOT what God intended. Don’t take things so literally, open your minds to what it is to treat people with kindness, love and respect. You may not understand what it is to be gay, but imagine if the norm was to be gay and you were straight. Maybe that will give you an insite of what we must deal with on a daily basis.
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Name : keith26545, City : northeast wisconsin, State : WI, Country : United States,No matter in religion, race, what you do for a living, or even mowing your own lawn, can you possibly be or do a way that makes everyone else happy. Many people, we shall call them arrogant for now, choose to think they are better than anyone else. Ignorance is key. However, you will have some people who probably spend hours reading the bible, and underlining passages that get misinterpreted by most, so that they can have fuel to hate someone else. I’ve read somewhere in the bible that men shouldn’t trim their beards or cut their hair, I don’t remember where or when I read this, but I’m sure someone knows what I’m talking about. But basically just be yourself, and remember that Christianity also teaches not to judge others, but it seems that’s all most Christians ever do. At least the ones I’ve known. ‘Holier than Thou’ I believe is the phrase that best suits the scenario. Whatever happened to loving Jesus and doing good for God? It became: I go to church and dress better than you so I’m going to heaven and you suck. And not once did I ever read in the bible that Jesus cast out the gays and lesbians, or told the lighter skinned or darker skinned they had to drink from opposite sides of the river. It’s all in the interpretations, and for the most part people have just missed the point.
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Name : Ricky29976, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, Age : 26, City : Jacksonville, State : IL, Country : United States, Occupation : press operator, Education level : Technical School, Social class : Lower middle class,I feel your pain. One of the greatest ironies to me is that people here will quote the bible to tell you that being gay is wrong (although there ARE alternate viewpoints on these passsages, but space, and my patience, are limited), but will stop short of taking the WHOLE bible literally. Children are not killed for disrespecting their parents, we don’t think twice about wearing multi-fabric clothing, and most of us eat pork. There are hundreds of other examples, many of them QUITE outdated. I think that people should keep in mind that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality that is recorded in the bible (although he spoke out against divorce, for example…how many people really follow His teachings on that?). People view biblical acceptance of slavery as a nod to the culture of the times, and is considered absolutely abhorrent now; could not biblical prohibition of homosexuality be seen as, likewise, a cultural phenomenon? Who are homosexual people hurting, after all? And as for those who say that you cannot keep defying God (as you see it) and still be a Christian, I remind you that all of us will continue to sin, no matter how hard we try not to. Incidentally, the bible says nothing about female homosexuality; only male.
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Name : Santiparam, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Methodist, Age : 23, City : Southington, State : CT, Country : United States, Occupation : Musician, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,Everybody says that because ‘god’ made Adam and Eve, that that excludes anything else. But that myth was created to justify patriarchy, the new religion, to degrade the previously female-centered religions. This story has very vicious repercussions, even if we leave sex out of it. Woman to blame for original sin? Oh, my. Every culture on earth has some similar creation myth, their gods made the first man and the first woman. Does this mean that if god created a spotted dog, that all-white dogs are not his creation? Alistair, you have a good point about helping us to limit the population. Mice do the same thing in over-crowded conditions. When the population pressure is relieved, they reproduce. Homosexual behavior occurs in animals; are they unnatural? It must have some purpose, or it wouldn’t keep occurring. We have been here throughout and before recorded history. Not reproducing ourselves, we are still here. We are still being born. And we can’t change, any more than anybody else can. For myself, I wouldn’t be willing to change, even if it were possible. I can accept belief in god, if it helps you to be a better person. But disapproving of me doesn’t help you do that. ‘Love the sinner, hate the sin’- not possible. Not helpful.
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Name : Kerry, Gender : F, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Wiccan, Age : 32, City : Ventura, State : CA, Country : United States, Occupation : Stagehand, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class,But by this logic could not an argument be made that to Christians, women are inferior because if God favored women, Jesus would have been female? I know that not everyone believes this, but Catholicism says that he was male because God wanted him to be male, not because of anything like ‘he would not have been accepted as a female,’ so if the argument is extended, could you still say it is vaild?
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Name : J.C., Gender : M, Race : Hispanic/Latino (may be any race), Age : 21, City : San Antonio, State : TX, Country : United States, Social class : Upper middle class,Most who have responded to you have stated correctly that the bible clearly states that the Almighty Father condemns such behavior; In fact, it is stated in the New Testament Romans chapter one that if one engages in this lifestyle (sexual act) that he (the Father) will give them up to a reprobate mind(unredeemable). So if you find my comments harsh, it is because the issue is of a serious matter. And since I gathered from your comment that the Almighty condemns the deed rather than the person, I would agree except of course what is in your heart whether you act it out or not convicts you. As Yahshuah (KJV ‘Jesus’) stated that once someone has thought the sin they are guilty of the sin even though they have not acted upon it. Recall the Genesis accounts of Esau, and how it is stated that the Father hated Esau (because Esau depised his birthright). The concern should not be in getting people to see scripture with a grey view. The issue is how much do you love the Father, or if you love him at all. For it is written, if thou lovest me thou shalt keep my commandments. And many who are quick to condemn are far from the right themselves. So, we must learn to clean up our own houses, then and only then, can we advise others when necessary.
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Name : Crystal, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Yisraelite, City : Greensboro, State : NC, Country : United States, Occupation : Machinist, Education level : 2 Years of College,I agree that God condemns same sex intercourse but nowhere does He condemn being homosexual. I feel you are one of many Christians who are more eager to condemn homosexual people than you are to reject the actions of paedophiles. A lot more noise is made in the Christian community about homosexuality than paedophilia. That is sick! The attitude of many Christians is similar to that of the Pharisees: you shut the door to the Kingdom of Heaven in the faces of others – in this case gay people. How about substituting the word ‘prostitute’ (I am not suggesting that a gay person is promiscuous or a prostitute) with ‘homosexuals’ as in ‘You will see the homosexuals and taxpayers going to the kingdom of heaven before you’ or does this make your skin crawl? PS: I am a born again Christian.
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Name : Eugene, City : Johannesburg, State : NA, Country : South Africa,
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