Dare To Ask Talk And News About Our Differences - This topic has 20 replies, 21 voices, and was last updated 18 years, 6 months ago by
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- I realize you want a gut reaction, Patrick, but unfortunatly for you my gut reaction to your post was boredom, so I ain't biting. I would, however, be thrilled to know what it is that you 'contribute' to society. Please don't use your job/qualifications to respond; that's even more boring. I am not asking this in a rhetorical manner, I would honestly like to know what it is you value as a 'contribution.'
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Name : Iteki, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Lesbian, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Recovering Catholic, Age : 24, City : Stockholm, State : NA Country : Sweden, Occupation : Student, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class,One who can't contribute to society should be removed? Who defines such a one? Would Helen Keller or Beethoven be classified as non-contributors because they were blind or deaf? If such a mindset were to come into place (it sounds like Hitler already had one similiar to that in Germany - the elderly non-contributors were killed, as were various non-productive groups), everyone would live in fear that they would be killed. Such a society would be very efficient, but without heart. They would kill their own builders when an age of infirmity would come upon them. Also, what would constitute a contribution? Then how much must the minimum contribution be? Like a salesman who doesn't make his quota, his life rather than his employment would be terminated. From a Christian point of view, our value comes from who we are, rather than what we produce. We are to produce as we are able. God gives life, which is the most valuable, and to prematurely terminate life would be to devalue this gift. It is in times of reflection and non-productive activity that the miracle and gift of life becomes apparent. Those who are obsessed with more production are too busy to see what a wonderful creation our Creator gave us.User Detail :
Name : Ronald-V29450, Gender : M, Religion : Christian, Age : 48, City : Edmonton, Alberta, State : NA Country : Canada, Education level : Over 4 Years of College,I think you've failed to establish that getting rid of such people would significantly impact the planet's resources. Would not strong family planning incentives be more effective and humane? Also, you fail to define 'contributing to society' and other practical matters such as who decides, etc.User Detail :
Name : Rick29772, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, City : Springfield, State : OH Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,I find the premise behind your post - that people are worth only as much as they can contribute - very troubling. How would this contribution be measured? Who makes this type of decision? Is an artist worth more or less than, say, an engineer? Who contributes more, and how do we quantify that? How do we decide when someone is too old/feeble/poor/short/tall/black/white/etc. to do what 'we' think they should? Where does it begin, and how will we know if we've gone too far? This is a very tricky (not to mention cold) calculus, and I don't think there's anything 'humane' about it. I believe there is more to life than trying to climb over your neighbor to soak up 'your share' of the resources. I also believe that we are more than animals.User Detail :
Name : L26175, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Black/African American, Religion : African Methodist Episcopalian, Age : 22, City : Chicago, State : IL Country : United States, Occupation : writer, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,Adolf Hitler felt the same about Nazi Germany in the '30s and '40s. Where is your compassion?User Detail :
Name : Bill23239, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 43, City : Burlington, State : VT Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,As Earth can support and take care of only so many people, what should we do about certain people who cannot contribute to society? For example, if I were informed that my son would be born with severe brain damage, I would not approve of life support to spare the life of someone who will never contribute to society. I'm sure there are many people who have retarded children who will say their child is a loving person and that you are glad they are alive today. This is absurd. A dog is a loving animal with a distinct personality. But if a dog consumed resources like a retarded child does, I'm convinced they would be illegal. My conclusion: anyone who cannot contribute to society should not be allowed to consume resources that should be left for our posterity. Instead, they should be humanely removed from society, either euthanised or left to fend on their own. If you really want a stupid, loving animal (because we are all animals), get yourself a dog, because a dog won't consume nearly as much of the earth's irreplacable resources. What do others think?User Detail :
Name : Patrick, Gender : M, Race : Irish, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 18, City : Los Altos, State : CA Country : United States, Occupation : student, Education level : High School Diploma, Social class : Upper middle class,Who is to decide what constitutes a valid contribution to society? And what exactly would such a contribution be measured in? Economic value by income? Then a housewife should be put out of her misery a.s.a.p. Emotional support? Then a bitchy, 30-year-old single loner would have less worth than society is ready to pay for. Social involvement? Then an organized, froth-at-the-mouth do-gooder using up barrels of fuel per year for driving about pestering his victims should be encouraged.What's yours, for instance? Some people might argue you use up way too many resources, only abuse the economy for your own benefit and in old age are reasonably to be considered a pest to humanity - plus not likely to contribute anything worthwhile any more. And from what age onwards would we then (all of us) expect to be put out of our misery for not contributing to society? Actually, come to think of it, what do you suggest doing with those who have accidents that leave them permanently damaged even at a young age? I reckon your line of thought is like a stone thrown into the water: the circle of potential victims increases in diametre the more time you think about it. Maybe think about it again.
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Name : c.t., Sexual Orientation : Straight, Religion : Atheist, Age : 32, City : Munich, State : NA Country : Germany, Education level : Over 4 Years of College,Does your solution include euthanising your aged grandmother when she becomes too old to contribute to society?User Detail :
Name : Lucy22375, Gender : F, Race : Hispanic/Latino (may be any race), Age : 27, City : San Jose, State : CA Country : United States, Occupation : Engineer, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,The problem with your argument is that it places material contributions above all others. I believe the value of each human life can never compare to any material thing. A dog may give affection and companionship, but I do not think the relationship between an animal and a person can compare to that of two human beings (whether that be a relative, friend or life partner). My mother had a sister who was mentally retarded, yet the love she brought to the family was immeasurable. In addition, who is to say who contributes more and who contributes less? Who gets to judge? What if there were 'contribution police' and they said you used up much more than you contribute? If you use more resources than you consume, does that mean you should be 'humanely removed'? After all, as a nation, the United States uses up about 80 percent of the world's resources, yet we are only about 5 percent of the population (I heard these statistics recently - they may not be exact but they are close). With your logic, shouldn't our entire country be destroyed? I believe our value is not measured only by our contributions. We have value just because we exist. And it is an immeasurable value.User Detail :
Name : Marianne, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 40, City : Cleveland, State : OH Country : United States, Occupation : educator, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,I used to work at a group home for people with mental retardation and simultaneous mental illness. They each worked at jobs, engaged in leisure activities, had relationships with their family and friends, paid their bills ... the things that 'normal' people would be expected to do. They needed appropriate supports to do such things, but they did them. They were productive and contributed to society about as much as anyone does. What makes you think the disabled don't contribute?User Detail :
Name : Leslie22877, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Unitarian, Age : 27, City : St. Petersburg, State : FL Country : United States, Occupation : Psychologist, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,I can understand your comments. There is no practical point to keeping a retarded child who is not going to contribute to society in any way. They should be put out of their misery and their parents' misery. However, while resources are abundant, no one will ever consider putting children like these to death. But wait 100 years when we have used up most of our resources and wrecked the planted, and I am fairly positive your views will not seem so impractical.User Detail :
Name : Jon29362, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Black/African American, Religion : Atheist, Age : 22, City : Windsor, Ontario, State : NA Country : Italy, Occupation : School, Education level : 4 Years of College,As one who believes nature knows best, and who has an empathy for every species on this planet, my personal beliefs side *slightly* along with this guy's. However, I don't think he's going nearly far enough. I'm fully in favor of wiping out the human race entirely. All of us; gone. Not painfully, of course. I like to think of every man woman and child on Earth all just passing out at the same time. And staying out. 'Cuz frankly, *all* of us are the ones who aren't contributing. Think about it, do we give anything BACK to the Earth? And that doesn't count things we've already stolen. Really, for all the resources we take, all the minerals we mine, all the trees we cut, all the animals we murder, what do we contribute to this planet? Anything at all? Can you think of one thing? Humans are a species that are completely selfish, and they bring harm to EVERY other life form on this planet. The guy in The Matrix is right; we's a disease. Time for us to pack up our crap and leave. So I advocate complete extinction, and that includes myself, my parents, my friends, Mr. Rogers, Tom Cruise, the guys in Aerosmith, Nelson Mandella, all of YOU, and ESPECIALLY George Dubya. Because if we really wanna 'save the planet', this is the only way it's EVER gonna get any better. Have a nice day.User Detail :
Name : Alex-Reynard, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Omnisexual, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 20, City : Royal Oak, State : MI Country : United States, Occupation : unemployed video store clerk and cartoonist, Education level : High School Diploma, Social class : Lower class,Your question may have been facetious and written only to generate response, but if examined, then maybe there is a serious answer. Perhaps disabled people contribute in ways that you have not even considered - they teach us empathy and how to love unconditionally; they even generate jobs! I don't claim to know the 'answer' to your question, but I do know that it is not getting rid!User Detail :
Name : siouxZQ, City : Merrickville, State : NA Country : Canada,Your proposal is too inhumane. It would be hard to draw a line between a 'productive' person and a 'nonproductive' person. Also would you like to be in a society that 'puts' people down?? I do believe too many resources are directed to disabled people who will never give back to society. This money would be better spent educating and helping the 'able' young, particularly from low socioecomic areas. Its a shame to see wasted potential.User Detail :
Name : K., Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, Age : 22, City : Sydney, State : NA Country : Australia, Occupation : Educator, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,When I was a chiled, I was in a mental hospital for a few year. As a teen, I have been recognized as being disabled, and was getting wellfare. Now I am healthy, not disabled, working, paying taxes, and helping other people is diffrent projects. If I would have beeen left 'to fend on thier own' as you put it, instead of fightinh against low chances to get where I am today, I would have had zero chances. Granted, my case is not common. Are you willing to give up what I can give to society (and I give today, quite a bit), just not to take care of others?User Detail :
Name : Shosh, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Jewish, Age : 24, City : Tel Aviv, State : NA Country : Israel, Occupation : Computer software, Social class : Middle class,
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