Dare To Ask Talk And News About Our Differences - This topic has 10 replies, 11 voices, and was last updated 22 years, 11 months ago by
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Why do West Indian people and Africans (and first generation people from both groups) generally do better in the United States than American blacks (Afro Americans) in terms of academics, business ownership, etc.?
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Name : Kalianne, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Caribbean black, Religion : Christian, Age : 27, City : Jersey CIty, State : NJ, Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,I am not sure what you mean by West Indian/Africans who ‘do better’ in America than native Black Americans. I am college educated, earn a high salary and live in a large house in a great neighborhood. I consider myself happily middle class. If you are referring to economics, I know of many, many African Americans who are successful. Nearly all of my Black friends are socioeconomically equal to me. Perhaps you should broaden your circle of acquaintances. Now if you are asking why are whites more accepting of black people who are not from America, now that’s a more pertinent question.
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Name : alicia31401, Race : Black/African American, City : atlanta, State : GA, Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College,i was the first person in my family (nigerian) born in the us. i didn’t meet any other nigerian kids (or african for that matter) until i got to college, where like 50% of black students were either international (african) or first generation. although sometimes i think the countries social services, being far better than most african or west indian countries helps this attitude. (but not creates!) not to offend, it’s just that i’ve often heard my parents lamenting that if they’d known this, or had that…usually referring to citizenship and benefits from it.
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Name : Madinat22302, Gender : F, Age : 20, City : ATL, State : GA, Country : United States, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,funny, i’ve noticed the same thing… although, this is ONLY what i’ve experienced, as i’ve met and talked with many african men up here in the big apple, from several different african countries… every last one was adamant about not being confused with, or lumped in with ‘american blacks.’ in fact, if they weren’t black themselves, they’d certainly be considered racist. they’re very hard, morally, on mainstream american black culture. and this is from a variety of professions and socio-economic levels… in general, they were all extremely proud. however, and this is a big however, i’ve noticed the same thing with mexicans, asians and middle easterners… so it’s probably an immigrant thing. embracing america for what it is/could be, etc. but you never know.
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Name : Ric-M30033, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 30, City : NY, State : NY, Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,West Indians do well because the discipline in West Indian elementary and high schools is good, with few exceptions. I wore school uniforms in elementary, secondary and technical school. School is not a joke or fashion show or pick-up joint for teens. Usually the West Indians who come to the United States are the best the Caribbean has to offer academically, financially and socially, and these are the type of people who do well even in their own countries; they just come to the States to do better. The economies of the Bahamas, Trinidad, Barbados and many smaller islands are healthy enough so that their people don’t arrive in the United States dirt poor. They have a start when they arrive. Caribbean moms tend to hold back their girls from boys and teenage pregnancy. The children of Caribbean people often live with their parents much longer than U.S. blacks, so young West Indian adults save money by not having to pay for housing all by themselves. Like U.S. blacks, Caribbean people tend to be more religious, so, simply put, God blesses them. These are just a few of the reasons I can rattle off, off the top of my head.
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Name : Natasha20098, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Afro-Caribbean, Religion : Christian, Age : 29, City : Capitol Heights, State : MD, Country : United States, Occupation : administrative assistant, Education level : Technical School, Social class : Lower middle class,First generation West Indians and Africans in this country come as immigrants to a place that ostensibly offers them more than what they are leaving behind. They bring a psychology of hope, sense of fresh opportunity and levels of expectation that are incompatible with the centuries of experiences of blacks already here. The immigrants are leaving behind the very types of debilitating memories, circumstances and conditionings that black Americans, in America, are unable to escape. Black Americans immigrating to other countries (as many black artists had to do in our lifetimes), progress there comparably to first generation West Indian and Africans here. Higher achievement levels are sustained among first generation black immigrants commensurate with their residuals of hope, self-confidence and high expectations. These are typically dissipated after one generation, as subsequent generations are seen and treated by America as just black. My father told me once of a black family that was building a home just outside of Memphis during the 1930s when several local white males came by and told the blacks ‘it would be a shame if the house burned down.’ The blacks, understanding what this meant, never put another nail in the house, which eventually fell down 20 years later. Other blacks ‘knew,’ as they would say, from this and so many other similar experiences, that ‘whites never wanted blacks to have anything’ and would do great harm to those blacks who ‘tried to go too far’ or who ‘got out of their places.’
The long-term consequences of such experiences and conditionings are profound. Black Americans were robbed of their self-confidence, intimidated out of their entrepreneurial spirits and chronically induced to lowered self expectations to degrees far beyond that of West Indians or Africans. Two hundred and fifty years of slavery were immediately followed by another 120 years of Jim Crow no less debilitating as the enslavement itself. Jim Crow has been dying a slow death, as some of its laws may still be on the books in rabid holdout states like South Carolina. It is a painful reminder to black Americans that they were never welcomed here, nor ever thought kindly of since being here. While each immigrant can get a rush of prideful emotions from the welcoming Statue of Liberty, black Americans have never seen themselves as objects of her welcome.
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Name : Floyd L., Gender : M, Age : 59, City : Memphis, State : TN, Country : United States,Floyd L., I disagree with your statements. You seem to forget that Afro-Caribbean people (like me) are descendants of slaves, too! Slavery and colonialism tried to hold down blacks and native Indians in the islands. Only traces remain of the Indian tribe called the Caribs, from whom the Caribbean gets its name, and little is known of the people called the Arawaks, another Indian tribe that was in the islands when Columbus ‘discovered’ them. There are today some Caribbean islands that are still colonies of Britain, France and Holland. But we, Caribbean people, do not let that hold us back; we come to the States (and Canada) to make it. U.S. blacks are born in America, so they should ‘make it’ even better than us if they put their minds to it. Look at Colin Powell, the U.S. Secretary of State – he is black and holds one of the best offices in U.S. government. I hear that he’s of Jamaican-descent, by the way.
So don’t tell me that U.S. blacks are always being held back by whites. Yes, sometimes, but not always. If anything, nowadays blacks are being more held back by their own lack of hope. Some U.S. blacks are so accustomed to looking back over their shoulder for the white man that they can’t turn around their heads to see the gold mine in front of their faces. What goldmine? The U.S. economy. Meanwhile, other U.S. blacks, like BET’s founder, have become billionaires. The current U.S. Surgeon General is black, too.
Slaves struggled for freedom and got it, and then their descendants struggled to topple Jim Crow and did it. But Floyd L., your generation is the first free generation of U.S. blacks, and what are you making of it? I highly recommend that you read Robert Kiyosaki’s book, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. It is a book to help you triumph and prosper in the U.S. economic system. The book is to benefit the poor and middle class, regardless of race. You are a free, educated black man, so go out there and prosper. The slaves in the old days, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. in the 1950s and 1960s and others today have already paved your way. Get up, pave some more way for your grandchildren, but first read that book. You said that second-generation Caribbean people and Africans are not as successful as first-generation ones. That’s because they start thinking like some black Americans: negative and defeated.
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Name : Natasha20101, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Afro-Caribbean, Religion : Christian, City : Capitol Heights, State : MD, Country : United States, Occupation : administrative assistant, Education level : Technical School,There is no proof that Caribbean blacks and African blacks (those whose ancestors sold their brothers into slavery and still enslave their brothers) outperform Afro-Americans. Indeed, I have seen the opposite most of the time.
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Name : Willy, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Bisexual, Race : Black/African American, Religion : Christian, Age : 21, City : San Diego, State : CA, Country : United States, Occupation : Engineer, Social class : Middle class,If you read Stephen Steinberg’s ‘The Ethnic Myth’, he explains how West Indians often find relative success in this country because they basically represent the ‘cream of the crop’ because of restrictive immigration policies and often come with skills needed to make it in this country, unlike the inner-city blacks who have little chance to acquire job skills to advance their prospects. He also qualifies the success of West Indian blacks by saying their average incomes still falls far short of the average incomes of whites, and closely mirror the average income of middle-class blacks.
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Name : Gad, City : Boston, State : MA, Country : United States,I once read a book that noted that when Black West Indians were in slavery, they also had to take care of themselves, growing their own crops, building their own houses, outside of their slave duties. Ownership of those possessions were allowed. Slaves in America were 100% dependant on their owners, given shoddy housing and bad food. The difference is after slavery ended, West Indians had a better advantage over blacks in America, because they were not as dependant on whites to survive.
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Name : Eric25211, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Disability : Epilepsy, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 25, City : Kansas City, State : KS, Country : United States, Occupation : Systems Administrator, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class,Probably because they come to the US after african americans had to deal with the serious bullshit of the 18th, 19th, and 20th centuries had to dish out.
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Name : alex, Gender : F, Race : *poweRpuFF greeN*, Age : 19, City : houston, State : TX, Country : United States, Occupation : *maDsCienTist*,
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