Dare To Ask Talk And News About Our Differences - This topic has 12 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 21 years ago by
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I just recently moved into South Boston, or Southie as some call it, and I want to know about their attitudes. Why do they, and other working-class whites, seemso racist? I’ve lived here two months, and I’ve already heard many comments, and other prejudicial actions have been taken against me. I’m not moving anytime soon because the neighborhood’s surprisingly cheap and safe. One thing that might help – Southie is mostly Irish and Irish-American; maybe they have a history of being this way?
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Name : Mickey M., Gender : M, Religion : Catholic, Age : 18, City : Brighton Beach, Brooklyn, State : NY, Country : United States, Occupation : Longshoreman, Education level : Less than High School Diploma, Social class : Upper middle class,Kawaida: Southie has always been a racist neighborhood. You need to read the history of Boston of the 1970s to get started on this subject and then read the history of the immigrants’ arrival in Boston. Each succeeding nationality hated the next one because of economics and fear of differences. The Irish are not the only group who hate. You will find out more as you read and live your life. Thanks for the question, though. It is thought-provoking and ought to bring more than a few responses. I grew up in the Dorchester, Fields Corner area, and during the ’50s we were as bad as Southie. I left Boston behind for many years because I hated all the hate that was evident there. Things are better today, I believe, but not much in some ways. George
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Name : George G., Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 60, City : Boothbay, State : ME, Country : United States, Occupation : boatbuilder, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Lower class,There are three reasons, all related: Economics, education and culture. Economically, working-class whites have the most to lose and are the most threatened by unskilled labor. Since people of color have historically been a large part of the underclass, they pose a threat to working-class whites (who often complain that X minority group is taking all of their jobs). This is also related to education – working-class whites don’t have the same access to higher education and hence a higher standard of living. Culturally, it’s more socially acceptable among working-class whites to be racist. Among middle-class whites, racism is a social stigma. This doesn’t mean middle-class whites aren’t racist, it just means they hide it better because they know it’s improper. Alone with each other, middle-class whites often say incredibly racist things if they feel comfortable doing so.
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Name : Dziga, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 29, City : Minneapolis, State : MN, Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class,Most Irish and Irish-Americans are far more tolerant, having only recently been under oppression by the English in their own homeland. However, there are some areas where the working-poor Irish-Americans tend to develop these racist attitudes. Typically, the areas are in the larger East Coast cities where the immigrants would have settled during the mid/late 1800s. During that time, the Irish immigrants were treated very poorly, forced to live in ghettos and similar poor conditions. When slavery was abolished, the Irish found themselves in competition with the newly freed slaves. They were treated very much the same at first. It was not until some Irish-Americans gained political power and were able to influence change that the circumstances were better for the Irish. But some of the Irish and Irish-Americans who still experience poverty consider any other minority group a threat, and act accordingly to protect their resources and jobs. You will find that this attitude is fairly widespread among Eastern cities, where ethnic groups have ‘control’ of certain areas of the city and resist outsiders (Italians, Russians, Polish, Haitians, etc.).
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Name : John K., Gender : M, Age : 27, City : Cranford, State : NJ, Country : United States, Occupation : Chemical Engineer, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,I think most whites would be concerned that blacks moving into the area would tend to increase the number of crimes and gangs.
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Name : Buddy, City : Dallas, State : TX, Country : United States,To say that ‘Alone with each other, middle-class whites often say incredibly racist things if they feel comfortable doing so’ is more than a bit silly, as it’s certainly not true of all ‘middle-class whites.’ Rephrasing it as ‘… some ignorant and prejudiced middle-class whites …’ would make it more accurate.
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Name : Steve27854, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 51, City : Los Angeles, State : CA, Country : United States, Social class : Middle class,I was born and raised outside of Boston, and my perception is that Southie has been characterized by prejudices for a long time, and that these prejudices were exacerbated by busing in the 70s. I believe the racism comes from a long and complex history of Boston’s roots. Boston is a very segregated city in general and has been touted for both its liberal attitudes and its rampant racism. I don’t feel comfortable saying any more, because I wasn’t raised in Southie specifically, and I’m upper middle-class, but I can recommend a very good book that may further your understanding titled Common Ground: A Turbulent Decade in the Lives of Three American Families, by Anthony Lukas. It specifically answers your question, ‘maybe they have a history of being this way,’ and it certainly furthered my understanding of the city of Boston.
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Name : Lisa, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 24, City : los Angeles, State : CA, Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class,For years, ignorant, myopic liberals (e.g. the people who posted the previous posts) who know nothing of the complexity of racism in Boston (not just South Boston) have been trying to analyze the situation based on stereotypes. I always wondered why people try to form an analysis about a situation they know nothing about. First, racism is not a one-way street. A person does not have to be white to be racist, and by reading your post it is safe to say that you are racist toward Irish-Americans. Second, not all Irish-Americans are racist, but one would expect a stereotypical comment like that to come out the mouth of an ignorant racist. Now let me give a brief history of racism in Boston. One day an ignorant liberal judge trying to analyze a situation that he knew nothing about decided it would be a good idea to bus the children from the poorest white school in Boston to the poorest black school in Boston, and vice versa for the black children. Of coarse, neither white nor black parents wanted to see their children bused across the city to attend school in a neighborghoods they knew nothing about, especially when the local school was right up the street. Not knowing who to blame, whites and blacks pitted this horrible social situation against each other, and today the lingering affects of busing can still be observed in the form of racism, not only in Southie, but in almost every ethnic neighborhood in Boston. So who’s to blame for this situation? Ignorant liberals trying to analyze a situation they know nothing about.
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Name : Paul, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Irish American, Religion : Catholic, Age : 18, City : Quincy, State : MA, Country : United States, Occupation : lifeguard, Education level : High School Diploma, Social class : Lower middle class,I can’t speak for the Auld Sod but I don’t think the Irish have a history of ‘feeling this way.’ Like many other things there is some background that may expain it. Early in the history of this country, the only way most Irish could immigrate to here was by selling themselves into slavery for 7 years to pay for their ship passage to the United States. They endured slavery willingly because to continue living in Ireland meant they would most likely die of starvation. Temporary slavery and the possibilty of a life that might be better was preferable to what they faced in their home country. When they arrived in this country they faced discrimination. They emigrated in such large numbers after the potato blight and the subsequent famine in Ireland that they frightened those who were already here because they felt this influx of foreigners threatened their ability to earn a living. Signs were posted at places of employment that read, ‘IRISH NEED NOT APPLY.’ The transcontinental railroad was built mostly by workers of Irish descent in the East and workers of Asian descent in the West. The work was dangerous and many were killed, but it was often the only work either group could find due to discrimination. There is also an Irish social pecking order. We have labeled ourselves either Shanty Irish or Lace Curtain Irish. The Lace Curtain types tend to be more liberal, and the Shanty tend to be less so. Of course, this is stereotyping and is only true in a general sense. Those of us with less education find a number of things we don’t completely understand threatening. This can take the form of commentary you have either overheard or had directed at you. I don’t condone what you have experienced, but I hope my comments help you understand why it exists.
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Name : ROY, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 63, City : Butler, State : PA, Country : United States, Occupation : doctor, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,What’s my point? Don’t take it personally if people give you looks or call you names. They’re not really seeing you (reading Ralph Ellison’s Invisible Man would be a good idea now). They might be acting out because their friends just got robbed by black kids in Dorchester, or their dad was passed over because of ‘reverse discrimination’ in the fire department, or they’re just mildly retarded, which you’ll notice a lot of Southie kids seem to be (fetal alcohol syndrome, most of the time). Rely on your social instincts and spot a ‘good one’, try to strike up a conversation. You’ll be lucky if you find five good ones. Actually, nah…Southie’s mellowed out since I left (when I was 18, I’m 23 now). They don’t take race too seriously anymore. The worst you’ll get is name -calling.
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Name : Paul Chandler, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 23, City : Jamaica Plain, State : MA, Country : United States,I grew up in Southie. What the others have said about economics is more or less true. My personal experience of Southie was unique. My mom was a lesbian; my brother was (and is) a gay ballet dancer who hung out mostly with black girls; I attended public school (the Tynan, as opposed to Gatie or St. Peter’s), most of my friends were black, and I didn’t play hockey or soccer. As you’d expect, I routinely got the shit kicked out of me. I was very ‘southie’ in other ways, however. For example, I was racist, deep down. It’s a generational thing, passed down from one to the next. Every kid in Southie grows up racist. White kids in the projects hang Tupac posters in their bedrooms but hate ‘n*ggers’. It’s, as they say in Southie, ‘re-donk-ulous’. I grew up near Gate of Heaven. Pretty good people up that way. If you live near Andrew Square, you’re don’t really live in Southie, the Southie I know and respect. The poorer, the dumber, the more racist. A-F Streets are poorer than G-P. People near M St. are generally better off, generally more cultured, nicer. Visit a few stores and shops, especially on East Broadway. I seem to be a ‘snob’ when it comes to classifying people by their incomes and education, but it’s more about lifestyles than income. There are poor and uneducated people who do not live poor lives, who have compassion and intelligence, and it just happens that most of them live up the ‘Point’, and few of them live in the uglier, westward parts of Southie.
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Name : Paul Chandler, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 23, City : Jamaica Plain, State : MA, Country : United States,I am sorry to hear that you have experienced racism in Boston. Unfortunately, while conducting two years of research in Roxbury, I too, experienced ethnic slurs and near attacks based on my skin color. I moved out pretty quick to avoid the racism. When a community has a larger majority of one ethnic group, they do tend to feel that the community is their ‘turf’ or ‘hood.’ I have always known ‘Southie’ to be a mostly Irish town; full of their customs and culture. Many of these people take pride in their neighborhood and feel a degree of fear when they view other racial or ethnic groups locating to their ‘hometown.’
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Name : C. Guarnotta, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, City : Boston, State : MA, Country : United States, Occupation : Advocate, Education level : Over 4 Years of College,Kawaida – maybe if you open your mind and followed Dr. King’s doctrine about not judging someone by their skin color whether they’re Irish or not – maybe you’d find some of your neighbors as friendlly, good peopele.Your generalizations about White Irish people is exactly what Dr.King fought against. OPEN YOUR MIND SISTAH!
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Name : Ox Baker, Gender : M, Race : Black Irish, Religion : Wiccan, Age : 29, City : South Boston, State : MA, Country : United States, Occupation : youth worker, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Lower class,
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