Dare To Ask Talk And News About Our Differences - This topic has 32 replies, 31 voices, and was last updated 19 years, 8 months ago by
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Is Latino culture more sexist? I can’t walk through the mainly Latino neighborhood near my house without getting harrassed by men who seem to think it’s perfectly acceptable to make sexual comments or catcalls. I understand the rationale behind street harassment (to control women and keep them sexualized and uncomfortable) but why is it mainly Latino men who do this to me? Is this a class thing (they’re not extremely wealthy, or they wouldn’t be hanging out in front of the supermarket in the middle of the day) or a cultural thing?
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Name : Katie, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Bisexual, Race : mixed Korean and White, Religion : Atheist, Age : 23, City : Washington, State : DC, Country : United States, Occupation : retail, Education level : 4 Years of College,I am Hispanic but was born and raised here. I, too, have been puzzled by this, but I can find no answer, other than that the culture is one of the basest and most perverted. I despise the language with which they seek to address me … or any living thing of the female gender, for that matter. These guys are desperate.
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Name : Jane, Gender : F, Age : 20, City : L.A., State : CA, Country : United States,Before someone brings up the ignorant stereotype of ‘machismo’ into this discussion, let me try to nip that in the bud. No, Latino culture(s) are not more sexist. ‘Machismo’ is a racist stereotype foisted on us by outsiders and was invented by an Anglo anthropologist in the 1940s to justify racism against Mexicans. Anyone doubting that should read The Meaning of Macho by Matt Guttman.
First, in Latin cultures, women traditionally have a much more independent role than in Anglo ones. You have ‘la calle y la casa’, the street and the home. Women are absolutely in charge in the home. Husbands hand over their paychecks and get an allowance from their wives. And in the street, men are allowed to “pretend” to be in charge, in order to save face.
Second, how does this play out into comments in the street? Men give out ‘piropos’ (literally ‘little gems’), compliments to get a woman’s attention that are supposed to be poetic, sometimes ludicrously so by Anglo standards. ‘Tienes ojos como la alba’ was what I would say when I was single. (‘You have eyes like the dawn.’) It has zero to do with the so-called ‘control’ you seem to be inventing.
Third, Latin women (at least in Latin America) generally don’t find comments or male attention uncomfortable or threatening. They are taught to be conscious of their bodies at an early age, and the warmer climate, less clothing and more intense chaperoning by their relatives all aid in that. They don’t fall apart at the slightest little perception of ‘harassment’ like some Anglo women (and perhaps you) do. They are not coddled and sheltered or assumed to be so weak that someone simply whistling at them should make them cringe in fear. I think it’s a far healthier attitude, one that enourages women to be strong and own their own sexuality, and I plan to pass that along to my daughters.
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Name : ACC25075, Gender : M, Race : Mexican and American Indian, Age : 38, City : Phoenix, State : AZ, Country : United States, Occupation : Teacher, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class,I don’t think that’s the case, because black men tend to do the same thing in the streets. I mainly did this when I was bored or maybe needed some attention. I really don’t think this is a racist remark.
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Name : Jay, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 26, City : Atlanta, State : GA, Country : United States, Occupation : Student, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,A.C.C starts off by implying that he hates stereotypes and that these anti-Latin stereotypes of Hispanic men being macho were created by ignorant outsiders (i.e. white Anglos) who don’t understand his Latin culture. He writes: ‘in Latin cultures, women traditionally have a much more independent role than in Anglo ones.’ But where does A.C.C get this information? While he believes it’s totally unacceptable for Anglo whites to stereotype Latin men as being controlling macho men, where does A.C.C get the idea that Anglo women are less independent than Latin women? Where does he get the idea that Anglo women are more likely to be controlled by their men? And if he’s implying that Anglo women have less power in the household and that white women aren’t ‘in charge’ of their homes, then this is clearly not what I saw in my home growing up, and it’s not what I see in the other white families I have contact with. In fact, I believe that in most modern famillies, the woman is in charge of the home. Now, If A.C.C believes this to be untrue, if he believes that Anglo culture is somehow a more male chauvinist culture and that this is why white women have less power in their homes than Latin women, then let’s see some evidence to support this. If A.C.C believes Anglo women are more fragile than Latin women and that Latinas ‘don’t fall apart at the slightest little perception of ‘harassment’ like some Anglo women do’, then let’s see some evidence to support that, too. Let’s see some evidence to support all of A.C.C’s anti-Anglo and anti-white stereotypes. If it’s unacceptable to stereotype or suggest that Latinos are more macho than Anglos, why is acceptable to suggest that Anglo women are frail little pushovers compared to Latin women?
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Name : Don, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 25, City : Toronto, State : NA, Country : Canada, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,First, ignore that poster from Florida who is attempting to justify cat-calling and lewd remarks by insulting you. Second, I have a Hispanic boyfriend and many Hispanic male friends, and they, too, hate their cat-calling brethren because a) it’s a low-class thing to do, b) it makes them (Hispanic men) look bad, and c) they don’t like their girlfriends/sisters/mothers being harrassed by scumbags in the street.
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Name : Jay20847, Gender : F, City : New York, State : NY, Country : United States,It’s a mix of culture and class. The ‘piropo,’ as A.C.C. says, was something my Dad did back in the ’50s, and they were nice. But I, who am fully Hispà nic, only did that when I was a teenager hanging out with friends. Just for fun, not with the intention of actually getting the girl. We would say sweet things to the ugly ones, who loved it, by the way. When I entered college, I totally stopped doing that. Believe me, you won’t find a young Hispanic lawyer or college professor siting in front of a supermarket saying anything to you. Anyhow, A.C.C is generalizing a bit and referring to a culture long gone (Latin women bring home the bacon too nowadays). I do agree with A.C.C. that the term ‘harrassment’ is not even present in the Latin female mind, which is a great thing. That’s why we are warmer and more friendly than most other cultures.
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Name : Nelson-A20176, Gender : M, Race : Hispanic/Latino (may be any race), Age : 34, City : Caracas, State : NA, Country : Venezuela, Occupation : educator/lawyer, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,Even if your argument about street harassment in Latin cultures being complimentary were true, A.C.C., that wouldn’t excuse the behavior of men who shout comments much more graphic than your ‘eyes of dawn’ gem. I guarantee you, by the way, that not all Latina women feel as you claim they do about these interactions. Being comfortable with my body and my sexuality doesn’t make me welcome attention that comes whether I wear a tank top or a trench coat. Many women of my acquaintance go down the street I referred to in my original posting with eyes straight ahead, bodies tensed in resentment and expectation of walking the gauntlet, once again. Take a tip: women don’t like it. And when your daughters start fending off street harassment at 11, 12, 13 and 14 years old, your advice to ‘be more comfortable with your body’ might not be good enough for them.
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Name : Katie, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Bisexual, Race : mixed Korean and White, Religion : Atheist, Age : 23, City : Washington, State : DC, Country : United States, Occupation : retail, Education level : 4 Years of College,To A.C.C.: You said: ‘They don’t fall apart at the slightest little perception of ‘harassment’ like some Anglo women (and perhaps you) do. They are not coddled and sheltered or assumed to be so weak that someone simply whistling at them should make them cringe in fear.’ You gotta be kiddin’, bro! I’m a white female, and not wanting vulgar remarks made about my body yelled out loud for everyone to hear doesn’t make me ‘so weak.’ I’m often out late at night and travel home alone, and I fear no one, but the guys who make comments are often the same ones who follow you home pestering you – and it’s plain stupid not to be cautious of such things.
You said ‘I think it’s a far healthier attitude, one that enourages women to be strong and own their own sexuality’ What the hell does objecting to cat-calling have to do with being ‘strong and own(ing) their own sexuality’? You make no sense. The two are mutually exclusive.
You said, ‘No, Latino culture(s) are not more sexist. First, in Latin cultures, women traditionally have a much more independent role than in Anglo ones.’ You can’t possibly be serious. Latin America is a beacon of sexual equality? Tell that to any women’s rights organizations and they will laugh in your face.
You said ‘Men give out ‘piropos’ (literally ‘little gems’), compliments to get a woman’s attention that are supposed to be poetic, sometimes ludicrously so by Anglo standards’. Ha. So when was the last time you were a girl walking down the street getting harrassed by a guy? What you quoted sounds much different from the usual ‘gems’ from guys in the street; about how big your ass is, how big your boobs are, how fine you are, what sex acts they want to perform on you, etc. And if you dare tell them to quit being so rude, you’ll be accused of being uppity, a bitch, a lesbian … and this is all if you’re lucky enough not to be followed and physically harrassed.
So, teach your daughters that it’s OK to be objectified by strange men in the street. That’s a really positive message to give to young girls.
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Name : Jay20844, Gender : F, City : New York, State : NY, Country : United States,I am extremely gratified that the one person who agreed with me was a fellow Latino. And I’m not the slightest bit surprised that so many Anglos cherish these stereotypes so much – they do fall apart at a challenge to them.
Don: I already gave evidence to back up what I said. But you chose to ignore the words in front of you. Once again, the book’s name is The Meaning of Macho, and it was written by an Anglo male anthropologist. Go tell HIM these ridiculous claims of yours that he is ‘anti Anglo’.
Katie: Nowhere in my post did I defend harassment. And I have cousins and nieces who are teens and younger, and you know what? They don’t fall apart at harassment. If you had the same self-confidence that my 11-year-old niece and teenaged cousins do, you wouldn’t get as much sh*t from those fools.
Jay: You truly must be kidding if you think I will buy your utterly racist view of Latin America. Just because you might know of a few women’s rights groups that buy into those racist lies doesn’t mean squat. The feminist movement has never gotten very far among either Latinas or in Latin American precisely because of smug, superior and downright racist sterotypes like you fall for.
For the record, most of Latin America’s congresses have a higher percentage of women than the United States. Cuban women had right to vote and won universal healthcare in the 1900s. Cuban women do not take their husbands’ names at marriage. Argentina had a woman president. Mexico’s leading potential opposition candidate for president is a woman. If you tried telling Latin American women that American-style feminism was something they should want or need, they would laugh in your face! They’re doing better than American women in the fight for equality.
To anyone still doubting what I say, please read my friend Lynn Stoner’s work on Latin American women.
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Name : ACC25100, Gender : M, City : Phoenix, State : AZ, Country : United States,Let a white girl (OK, an Asian/white girl) spout one racist lie after another, and that’s OK with people. But let a righteous Latino brother give them the truth, and one racist Anglo after another drops a load in their pants. Sorry, I call ’em like I see ’em. Katie and Jay, you claim you’re not being weak, and then you whine away endlessly and talk about being tensed up just because some idiot said something about your breast? Get over it! Ever think the way you tense up is something they can sense? They can smell your fear. You are weak, and they know it. That’s part of why they target you, like the way a wolf or shark smells blood from someone wounded. That doesn’t make it right, but it does say that your way is not working. I don’t know any Mexican girls who get harassed, except by whites and blacks. You insult every brown person on the planet by your racism. You have the gall to claim being whistled at equals the pain of being brown in this country? Don’t make me laugh. Good going, ACC. Glad to see someone stand up and challenge these lies.
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Name : Marisol, Gender : F, Race : Hispanic/Latino (may be any race), Age : 23, City : Nogales, State : AZ, Country : United States, Occupation : Daycare, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Lower class,Jane: I’ve never seen such self-hatred as yours. Really appalling. Maybe if you actually knew a bit more about your own heritage, you wouldn’t despise it so?
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Name : ACC25079, Gender : M, Race : Mexican and American Indian, City : Phoenix, State : AZ, Country : United States, Occupation : Teacher, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class,I can’t believe how the discussion got away from the original post. Katie posted a question with a blatantly racist premise, that Latinos were ‘more sexist’. Than what? Obviously than the white culture Katie seems to worship and considers oh-so-more-enlightened than any other, including her own Asian heritage. ACC takes her on for her racist garbage, and one Anglo after another spouts the same line of ‘It-can’t-be, no-way, it’s-just-gotta-be true, whites really are more enlightened than those piggish brown people!’ I really loved ACC’s answer. I get so tired of constantly seeing Latin males depicted as sexist. No one I know is anything like that, not my father, uncles, brothers or friends. And face facts, white girls, many of you are doormats. Not all, but way too many. I’ve heard my share of black, white and Latin males say they can get away with things with a white girl that a black or Latin woman would leave them for. And don’t you think this is something the catcallers know? There really is something built into your culture that makes you more submissive, and yet all you can do is turn around and bash Latinos and delude yourself into thinking you’re superior. You’re not. Katie, Jay and Don, you’re just one more set of deluded racists. And I hope the site owner posts this support of a Latin brother with as much fanfare as he posted one white racist after another tearing him down. I realize he says he occasionally posts messages that are outside the guidelines, but four in a row? And all on the same thread, attacking one person? That’s not right.
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Name : Rosalinda, Gender : F, Race : Hispanic/Latino (may be any race), Age : 20, City : Tempe, State : AZ, Country : United States, Occupation : Student, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Lower class,Those who cry ‘racist’ to the poster are the very reason for the separation of the races in the United States and the ones who are ruining any possibility of discourse. There was no malice in the poster’s question – she was just asking a valid question. And for those who claim my post – for agreeing with the poster – is racist, you ought to know I have a Hispanic fiancee who readily acknowledges that Hispanic men do this – though she points out that it’s only the lower classes. The poster could just as easily have asked the same question about men from Italy (or India/Middle East/Africa) – who are notorious for harrassing women on the street. Would that have made her ‘racist’?. If you see racism in this issue, then you have a problem differentiating between real ‘racism’ (read: hate for a certain race) and imaginary ‘racism’ (read: noticing something about a race that is not entirely positive)
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Name : Jay31086, City : New York, State : NY, Country : United States,I have to object to the generalizations that are flying around in this discussion. Anytime you say, ‘white women are…’ or ‘Latino men are…’ this is not taking into account that those people who promote whatever behavior you are referring to do not represent the entire group. There are vast differences and diversity within any one group. Case in point: how many times have you heard that bisexuals are all sex-crazed, promiscuous sluts who can’t commit to a relationship? Maybe you’ve even met one like that, so of course it confirmed your opinion. But would you believe there are as many ways of expressing your bisexuality as there are minds and hearts out there?
We have to be willing to open our minds here if we want to have an intelligent discussion about street harassment. And by the way, it is awful, and it is not only ‘weak white women’ who object to it. Once again, women of different races, sexualities and classes find it offensive. And just as with other groups that you can’t generalize about, there are many different types of harassers and reasons why they harass. Some tell you to smile, or they say something ‘nice,’ like you’ve got a pretty face! Some do it to show off for their buddies, to show them who is in charge and that they can make the woman respond. But here is the major difference and the reason women find it threatening: there are documented cases of men ‘rape-testing’ women, meaning they start out harassing them on the street, all the while testing their responses. If the woman smiled and didn’t say anything, if she ‘just ignored it,’ these rapists followed the woman home and violated her. These were serial rapists who raped several women before finally being caught.
Most violent attacks against women start out with harassment. It is a fact. No one is saying all harassment is the same, because it’s not. But whether it’s just an unwelcome comment or is downright dangerous, it’s wrong. No one should have to spend time every day analyzing whether the guy saying things to you on the street wants to rape you, will hit you if you respond, or if he’s just ‘bored’. Because harassment carries the threat of rape, of which all women in this world are so conscious every day, it should be stopped. You should tell your guy friends to stop harassing women. We don’t like it.
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Name : Sheri, Gender : F, Age : 29, City : Washington, State : DC, Country : United States,
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