Dare To Ask Talk And News About Our Differences - This topic has 12 replies, 12 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 10 months ago by
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I want an honest answer as to where Jewish people’s national loyalties lie. As a Catholic, I am constantly being told that Catholic loyalties lie too much with the Pope and not enough with the United States. Can this be said of the Jewish people with regard to Israel? Are U.S. Jews more loyal to Israel than to the United States? For example, I really don’t care what goes on in Italy, even though I’m Italian-American.
Also, why is it that when you ask a Jewish person what their heritage is, all too often you get ‘I’m Jewish,’ not ‘I’m Polish’ or ‘I’m French.’ Why is Judaism considered an ethnicity as well as a religion?
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Name : Peter, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Religion : Catholic, Age : 20, City : Manhasset, State : NY, Country : United States, Occupation : Student, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class,Because many Jews claim to have Hebrew (a Semetic tribe) ancestry. Though I don’t think there are any pure-blooded Hebrews anymore, they probably completely mixed with Europeans since their exile from Israel millenia ago. The ‘I’m Jewish’ is probably the same reason a half-white, half-black person may often say ‘I’m black.’ Society regards and treats them as such, hence they identify with that heritage the most.
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Name : Andres, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Catholic, Age : 25, City : Chambersburg, State : PA, Country : United States,There are Jew who are Zionists (who believe the Jewish people should return to their homeland — Israel) and those who are not. As a Jew born in the United States, I respect the concept behind Zionism, as it was an outgrowth of the pogroms in Russia and Eastern Europe in the late 19th Century.
In answer to your question, I obviously cannot speak for all Jews. That said, I am an American, not an Israeli, and as such my loyalties are with the United States. While I am not a Zionist, I believe it is important for the United States to show continued support for Israel, the only democracy in the Middle East. In addition to our shared values, Israel represents the only country in the Middle East that the United States can count on as far as protecting American Interests in that region.
As for the second part of your question, I believe it is non-Jews who perpetuate Judaism as an ethnicity as well as a religion. When a Jew asks me my heritage, I reply Austrian, Hungarian, Russian and Romanian … and it is accepted. When a non-Jew asks me the same question and I reply with the same answer, 9 out of 10 times the follow-up question of ‘yeah, but you’re Jewish, right?’ is asked.
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Name : Susan, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Jewish, Age : 38, City : Forest Hills, State : NY, Country : United States, Occupation : Sales Management, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class,I think Jews are more bound to the ‘concept’ of Israel than the ‘concept’ of the United States, but the loyalty, as far as military or what-not, would be with the country of origin. Now, onto the ‘ethnic’ portion of your question. I feel I identify more strongly with a Jewish identity than with any national or generally European identity. I think this is because the Jewish experience is different from that of the general population.
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Name : Rosie29491, Gender : F, Race : Mexican/Jewish, Age : 22, City : Los Angeles, State : CA, Country : United States, Occupation : student, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class,I personally disagree with Susan that Judaism cannot be seen as a heritage as opposed to a religion. I personally am an agnostic and feel uncomfortable in synagogues most of the time. However, I strongly identify my heritage as a Jewish heritage. Jewish culture and history is long and rich, and one need not believe in the Jewish diety to appreciate that. I celebrate my heritage in other ways besides prayer. However, I understand that many Jews feel the way Susan does, and I understand where they are coming from. This is a contested issue in the Jewish community. Oh, and my ‘loyalties’ are American, although I do feel a sense of comraderie with Israel. I think many American Jews feel the same way. I feel a little guilty to see young Israelis fighting to ensure a safe haven for Jews, while American Jews like myself live such a safe and comfortable life.
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Name : Bailey, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Jewish, Age : 31, City : Minneapolis, State : MN, Country : United States, Social class : Middle class,I feel more loyal to Israel. I would be very upset and confused if Israel made a hostile move against the United States, but I would be enraged if the reverse occurred. Would I stick my neck out to spy for Israel against the United States? Not likely. I want to live a peaceful life if at all possible. I agree with what one person said in response that it is others that make ethnicity out of Judaism. It seems like all religions like to say that they are not a religion; they are instead a way of life, which is what ethnicity is. But we have been treated as a nation for thousands of years by other nations. My extended family had their lives taken in the holocaust, and I don’t think the world has finished with us yet. Call me paranoid. But folks are calling us racist and nazis because of Israel’s national policies of giving full citizenship only to Jews. And they get away with this labeling. Would white people get away with calling ‘Gangsta Rappers’ Ku Klux Klanners? Not for a second. That allusion would be seen as inflammatory and racist against blacks and belittling toward the racism that has been perpetrated against blacks and that is still being perpetrated against blacks. Yet, no one seems to raise an eyebrow when the same is done to the Jews in the press.
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Name : David, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Jewish, Age : 35, City : Houston, State : TX, Country : United States, Occupation : Teacher, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,I guess the similar question to ask you would be ‘What if the US were at war with Vatican City,’ rather than ‘What if the US were at war with Italy.’
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Name : Hope, Gender : Female, Sexual Orientation : Bisexual, Religion : Jewish, Age : 38, City : Pittsburgh, State : PA, Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College,I remember being a kid in religious school, and having our teacher pose the question ‘If the US and Israel were at war, who would you support?’ It’s meant to be a head-scratcher; it’s not a question with a simple answer. I can say personally that part of the allegiance with Israel has to do with safety. Remember, the Holocaust happened less than 100 years ago, and the State of Israel was basically formed in the aftermath. What of the Jews who, in the 1930s, would have said they were ‘Germans’ or ‘Poles’ before calling themselves ‘Jews’? The State of Israel is a kind of insurance policy; During WWII, countries – including the US – turned away boatloads of Jewish refugees, esentially ensuring their deaths. If Hitler could happen in Germany, he could happen here as well. Even with a less sinister menace – say Bush and Congress decided to make Christianity the National Religion – the Jews always know that they will have a place where they can be free to be Jewish in Israel. And of course, Israel is the only country where Judaism is the national religion; If, for example, Catholicism were outlawed in Ireland, Irish Catholics would still have a choice of places to go to be Catholics. As to the second part of your question, about ‘Jewish’ as an ethnic identity, well, I agree in Judaism as a cultural identity. Judaism IS more than a religion; there is Jewish food, Jewish clothing, Jewish language (actually, three Jewish languages – Hebrew, Yiddish, and Ladino), there is a Jewish country … I would be hard pressed to identify a Lutheran food, or Presbyterian clothing. I do think Catholocism might also be considered a culture, as it does meet a lot of the same criteria.
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Name : Hope, Gender : Female, Sexual Orientation : Bisexual, Religion : Jewish, Age : 38, City : Pittsburgh, State : PA, Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College,Personally, I would have a tough time deciding between the US and Israel. There are many Jews who would say Israel without a doubt, and there are also many who would say America without a doubt. You’d be surprised who fits into each category. There are a large number of Hasidic (ultra-Orthodox, the ones you see in black hats and suits) Jews who are anti-Zionist, or against Israel completely. There is also a large group of secular Jews who are culturally Jewish and are Zionists or very pro-Israel. Judaism is considered by many (Jews and Gentiles alike) to be an ethnicity. It can be categorized as a religion, an ethnicity, a nationality, a culture, and even a philosophy. Judaism is usually a different combination of these categories for each Jew.
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Name : T.M., Gender : F, Religion : Jewish, City : Los Angeles, State : CA, Country : United States, Occupation : student,You must realize with a history of being thrown out of country after country in Europe and Asia and Africa and eslewhere that Israel is the only JEWISH state where Jews know they will not be thrown out of. It is our homeland. Israel is made up of many Jews and Israeli Arabs. When a terrorist attack happens in Israel – chances are you know someone who is there. Israel is a small country and the Jewish world is very small. In addition, Jews get up in arms when a suicide bombing happens because it is done to target JEWS. Yes, New York City may be more dangerous, but a mugger doesn’t discriminate between men in fancy suits, but a bomber wants revenge on the Jews. However, the United States is a haven as well, and any Orthodox Synagogue prays every week to protect and preserve US goverment, president and all officers. I think These reasons are why Jews in America care what happens in Israel more than you care what happens in Italy.
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Name : EJ, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Jewish, Age : 28, City : New York, State : NY, Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College,Jews are always American first…we are no different than anyone else when it comes to loyality. But to answer your question, your family was Italian and also Catholic. My family was never Austrian or Russian or German;they were Jews who were permitted to live in those countries but never allowed to be citizens. Therefore, our religion became a culture as well. Does this help?
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Name : Dianne Shames, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Jewish, Age : 53, City : Media, State : PA, Country : United States, Occupation : College Professor, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class,Except for the rare occasional convert, to be Jewish one must have been born to a Jewish mother. Therefore, a familial (even genetic) relationship exists. Even if a Jew converts to another religion, he/she is still considerered a Jew by most of the rest of the world, although an apostate Jew. Just remember the policies of the Nazis, no matter what religion you professed, if one of your grandparents was Jewish you were also considered Jewish. As to nationality, my grandparents came from diverse origins, Russia, Poland, Germany and France. I am not Russian or Polish or German or French. I am an American and that is where my loyalty lies. I have never understood people being a hyphenated Americans.
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Name : Steve27865, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Jewish, Age : 70, City : hendersonville, State : NC, Country : United States, Occupation : Retired, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,American Jews who feel very strongly about Israel, emmigrate there. Some have dual citizenship. As for the rest of us, it’s a matter of degree and not just a matter of loyalty. You have to understand that during the Holocaust, few countries would give refuge to persecuted Jews. Consequently, 6 million Jews were unable to escape and were slaughtered in Europe. Israel was established in part to be a safe haven for Jews around the world. It’s doubtful that the U.S. and Israel would become enemies since Israel is the only freely elected democracy in the middle east as opposed to Arab dictatorships. Just Curious
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Name : ShirleyAvery, Gender : F, Disability : none, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Jewish, Age : 52, City : st. louis, State : MO, Country : United States, Occupation : writer, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,
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