[Mickey M.]

Why are working-class Irish and Italians so clannish and outright racist? In Philadelphia, the Italian South Philly and the Irish Bridesburg/Kensington areas are outright hostile toward black people and all minorities. In other cities like New York (the Italian Howard Beach) and in Boston (the Irish South Boston), this seems to run concurrent. Is the Catholic Church involved?

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Name : Mickey M., Gender : M, Religion : Catholic, Age : 18, City : Brighton Beach, Brooklyn, State : NY, Country : United States, Occupation : Longshoreman, Education level : Less than High School Diploma, Social class : Upper middle class, 

[John K.]

This seems to be a fairly common artifact of metropolitan history on the East Coast. Recall that most of the Irish and Italians now living in those areas are the descendants of immigrants. In places like Philly, Boston, Chicago, etc., Irish and Italian immigrants would live in ghetto conditions and depend on extended family and ethnic connections to get by. Add to that the strong family ‘clan’ tradition in both ethnic groups, and that explains why they are so clannish, as you say.

But now the real question: Why are they usually so racist? This comes out of the prior answer. The Irish and Italians were segregated and discriminated against until earlier this century. So when other ethnic groups and freed black slaves entered the mix, there were distinct ethnic groups all fighting for the same resources. Even though the conditions have changed sharply, the mindset remains due to attitudes and grudges passed down through the generations.

Note that the attitudes you mention are more prevalent in lower-income ethnic areas, like South Philly, South Boston, even the Irish Channel in New Orleans. This is consistent with the idea that these ethnic groups consider minorities to be competition with regard to resources like jobs.

I doubt that the Catholic Church is involved to any large extent, other than the usual religious issues.

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[Mickey]

I live in Fishtown, which is just south of Kensington (and not too far north of South Philly as well). Anyway, I think we are ‘clannish’ because of a feeling of snobbishness from outsiders. And that’s outsiders of all races and backgrounds. Fishtown has gotten a bad rep as a neighborhood of racist White Trash; in fact, last I knew, black cops weren’t allowed to work in Fishtown. But from my own experience, we aren’t racist at all. Unfair associations with Frank Rizzo have given us a bad name. The media pokes fun at us at will. To us, sometimes it seems all we have is our neighborhood.

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Name : Mickey, City : Philadelphia, State : PA, Country : United States, 

[Hannahlore]

i can tell you that in the past when racism was rampet blacks were looked down upon and so were the irish which also looked down upon the blacks. it was more of a ladder thing when you look back on it all.

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[DM]

Funny I should see this question, as I was born and raised in the Kensington section of Philadelphia and went to Catholic school until transferring to public school in mid-freshman year. I believe being Catholic has very much to do with this. Even though we were all white, there was always the ‘I’m better than you -this person’s inferior to that one’ mentality based on looks, smarts, money and what-have-you. Believe me, they found SOMETHING! The teachers, nuns and priests had everything to do with this, with the way they acted toward “different” students. When I transferred to public school, I was introduced to many different nationalities and found a more open-minded and accepting environment. My classmates weren’t as judgmental and hostile toward other races and nationalities. The teachers were not biased. We just blended together. I believe attitudes were based on merit of personality. In the Northeast, all the races, whether black, white, Jewish, etc., generally act superior to the others and tend to segregate themselves. As far as the ‘neighborhoods’ in Philly: you are an outsider if you are not ‘from’ that neighborhood, regardless of which race you are. So, if you LOOK different as well, it’s only more fuel for the fire. It’s a very cliquish environment to begin with.

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[Melissa]

I noticed the same thing, but I live 20 miles west of Philadelphia in the ‘burbs, and this problem does not exist there. It seems in the townships here, the races co-exist without drama. I have noticed in Philadelphia the blatant disrespect from both races. Even the neighborhoods are segregated. It’s crazy! Not everyone is like that, however: my boyfriend is an Italian from South Philly.

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Name : Melissa, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Black/African American, Age : 35, City : king of prussia, State : PA, Country : United States, Education level : Technical School, Social class : Lower middle class, 

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