[JimC]

Some of the responses to this question so far reveal a level of ignorance and bigotry that I didn’t think existed in this day and age. To reply to CeCE, the assertion that homosexuality is a choice has been disproven medically, psychologically, and scientifically. You need only look inside yourself and ask when you ‘chose’ to be straight. You never made that choice, you just are what you are. I’m gay not because I chose it, but because that’s just how I was made. If you base your arguments on homosexuality being a choice, you’re just plain wrong, and all your subsequent assumptions and beliefs are then based on a falsehood and thus insupportable. And if you think my wanting to marry someone I love is a ‘special right’, how is this? You can marry someone you love. I want to be able to marry the person I love. What’s the difference? How is my marriage a ‘special’ right? And you say this has to do with values, family, and healthy child-rearing. Well, sure it does. And in the city and state where I live, conservative extremists have pushed through laws to say gays can’t marry, that domestic partners can’t receive the same benefits as straight couples, and that laws protecting gay people from abuse and discrimination can’t even be enacted. And the effect of this is that I and many other gays are going to move somewhere more welcoming, away from our families. Is this what you mean by protecting families? Tearing them apart? And a great many gay couples have children, either of their own or through adoption. These are families that exist. Wouldn’t it be better for these families if the state recognized them an provided the same benefits and security that families of straight couples enjoy? How does preventing people from being a legal family strengthen the family? It makes no sense.

User Detail :  

Name : JimC, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 36, City : Dayton, State : OH, Country : United States, Occupation : Systems Engineer, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class, 

[Coyotefred]

2. One response talks about gays seeking “special rights.” What, exactly, would those be? Name one right that gays have demanded that would be “special” (more than) other people enjoy right now. By this logic, Rosa Parks was unfairly demanding the “special right” to sit at the front of the bus. And the Chinese were seeking the “special right” of not being denied housing based on their race/ethnicity in California. And Blacks were seeking “special rights” by not having to take “literacy tests” in southern states that whites never had to take. The only thing that makes gay rights “special” is that certain people in this country don’t want gays to have them. The only example that comes close is the “gay high school” issue [Harvey Milk], which if someone had taken 5 minutes to actually learn about would find admits students regardless of sexual orientation; any student at risk due to harassment by other students will be admitted. One poster requests a “Christian-only” school. Fine. Point me to a community where Christians face the daily bullying and violence that gays often do in our public schools and I’ll support your school (and no, refusing to teach your pseudo-scientific “creation theory” in biology class doesn’t count). 3. By now you’re surely saying “But Coyotefred…what makes their rights ‘special’ is that gay people CHOOSE to be gay, while your other examples were not due to biology.” A first response to the “choice versus biology” issue might be “so what.” People choose to be Republicans and Baptists as well. Is that reason to deny them equal rights compared to Democrats and Catholics? But if you insist on fixating on the choice issue, I ask you a simple question: acknowledging what any honest person must about the daily bigotry, intolerance and outright violence gay people face in the country every day, WHAT REASONABLE PERSON WOULD CHOOSE TO BE GAY??? You can pretend if you want that we now live in a “Will and Grace”/”Queer Eye” world….but we all know what happens in 99% of our communities when a same-sex couple walks down a public street holding hands. WHY would anyone WILLINGLY CHOOSE to risk becoming the next Matt Sheppard??? And if you can’t answer that question maybe you need to rethink your position on this issue. (And no, you can’t weasel out by arguing the choice is somehow “unconscious” etc., which no longer makes it a “choice” now does it?)

User Detail :  

Name : Coyotefred, City : Sunflower, State : NE, Country : United States, 

[Jenna31015]

Why not marriage? If they can’t reproduce anyway, what’s the worry? Why the fuss? Gay isn’t something that can be controlled, it’s not a decision someone can make. It’s not their fault their gay. And if two men or two women want to get married, why should anyone stand in the way of their happiness? It’s fear that is stopping them from marriage, stupid, ignorant fear. Some people are just too afraid of change, of changing traditions and norms. But if God hates gay people, then He is no one I want to worship. There’s enough hatred in the world, why teach it in churches?

User Detail :  

Name : Jenna31015, City : Concord, State : CA, Country : United States, 

[Dave25993]

With all this defense-of-marriage nonsense, I can’t help but wonder what exactly is worth defending about it. Most of the married people I’ve known have been miserable. The fact that MOST marriages end in divorce is enough to make this painfully obvious. And don’t even get me started on the whole Marriage-is-sacred! bullshit. When I can get a drive-up marriage from an Elvis impersonator, when people are on their 4th husband or wife, when there are shows like My Big, Fat, Obnoxious Fiancee on national television, marriage is anything but sacred.

User Detail :  

Name : Dave25993, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Bisexual, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 23, City : Madison, State : WI, Country : United States, Occupation : IT Security Analyst, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[duke-l]

I think that making an analogy between gays and alchoholics demonstrates a clear point of view. The author is suggesting that gays are diseased. It seems to me that these decisions are neither logical nor well reasoned. Many people marry with no expectation of children, particularly senior citizens. Many of the other arguments could be, and have, been applied to other groups that people have decided were offensive to their sensibilities.

User Detail :  

Name : duke-l, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Buddhist, Age : 44, City : pittsburgh, State : PA, Country : United Kingdom, Occupation : educator, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[ken26440]

if that’s true, JustMe, then it would follow that married heterosexual couples that don’t have any children should also be denied the financial/legal/etc. benefits of marriage. Since after all, these benefits are intended to help the couple support the family to raise children, any married couple who does not actually raise children is freeloading on the marriage system. On the other hand… why can’t gay couples create child-raising families via adoption (there’s plenty of parentless children out there, many stuck in orphanages) or surrogacy? There’s a lot of resistance to that idea too, and that resistance coupled with the resistance to gay marriage gives the impression of a deliberate social catch-22 to keep the gays out of the hetero-only marriage club.

User Detail :  

Name : ken26440, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 28, City : seattle, State : WA, Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[HMOG21325]

Wow, am I ever glad to be Canadian. We’re a lot more tolerant than you neighbours in the South. It is legal for gay marriage up here, which is why we have so many couples running up here to marry. I am straight & married, and take no issue with gays marrying as their relationship is as valid and loving as my own. Gays marrying does not threaten me, does not lessen my marriage, and does not have a negative effect on society at large. The case instead is largely religious outcry. Religion too often is mixed with politics in order to assist the conservative viewpoint. Gay marriage and legalizing it is indiciative of this. The fear is that [open] gays and gay marriage will ‘change the church’ and force recognition of those who have been invisible in the pews until now. They have always been there, and as the Church itself says are ALSO GOD’S CHILDREN, and he LOVES THEM ALL. I find those that dispute that to be playing the part of God, which is certainly not their role to do so. All are [supposed to be] welcome in His House. The Bible refers to marriage as a sacred bond from which children should come from… Go forth and make babies in order to spread God’s word more. We should truly consider that: A) in the last 2000 yrs the world population has ripped the seams off the planet, hence the NEED to have children-filled-marriages is pretty low B) Gays can adopt, so they CAN have children and C) Finally, God’s word has been dissected, manipulated, twisted and corrupted since it was written and the gay marriage issue brings this to light. The King James version is full of hypocrisy; maybe that’s where the fear comes in, that modern Christianity itself may finally be judged.

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Name : HMOG21325, City : Wet Coast Up North, State : NA, Country : Canada, 

[J21106]

Whether you admit it or not America is a Christian country. So many people will find being homosexual wrong. If America was a free country as it is supposed to be than marriage would be open to all people. Gays will be able to marry eventually to support my point look at interracial dating/marriage. Less than 50 years ago this was illegal. It might take years but it will happen.

User Detail :  

Name : J21106, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Bisexual, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 27, City : Adbab, State : CA, Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[James]

Yes, this is a matter of religious prejudice, pure and simple. The arguments made against same-sex marriage tend be knee-jerk responses that reflect intolerance learned in the home and in the church. And when you start looking at these arguments you begin to realize that they are familiar: they often resemble arguments used in the past to try to ban interracial marriages. But I give them too much credit by calling these ‘arguments.’ They are emotional appeals really, and I have yet to see a hint of logic. They will say, for example, that it is OK for society to ban that which is harmful to society. Yet there is no logical argument proving that same-sex marriage causes any harm to society, nor that such marriage is any threat to the institution of traditional M/F marriage. What IS threatened is the world-view of people who seem to think the superstitions of ancient desert nomads can provide a template for the functioning of a modern multi-cultural society.

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Name : James, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, City : New Haven, State : CT, Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[Nick]

Democratic society is oriented towards reinforcing the ‘normal’ as put forward by voting. Based on old data, 10% of people are homosexual. That’s why gay people are a minority. They don’t count yet to politicians, other than as a marginal vote. So, Society’s rules are decided by the other 90% of people and the majority of those just aren’t liberal enough to insist that their representatives allow same-sex marriage. This is nothing about ‘scaring so many’. It’s about the rules of society being geared towards the continuance of that society as-is and being anti-change.

User Detail :  

Name : Nick, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 33, City : London, State : NA, Country : United Kingdom, Occupation : IT, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[joe]

‘Choosing to be homosexual does not make homosexuality a civil right. Society does not need to endorse or condone any inappropriate behavior that is unacceptable to the functioning of a civilized society. This has nothing to do with fear and eveything to do with values, family and the long-term health of children.’ i guess nobody ever informed you that homosexuality is not a choice. you can choose a lifestyle, but you cant choose what sorts of feelings you have. i would like to hear why you think homos affect the functioning of society, family, and childen’s health, because this part has me absolutely puzzled. ‘I think it’s an outrage that gay people want to have the same rights to marriage that straight people do. Back in the 1930s, there was no such thing as gay people. If you were gay, you kept it to yourself because someone could kill you and they’re only defense would be, he was gay. Then in the 1970s you saw everything…So now gay people can be gay, someone can know about it, they can even walk down the street and hold hands with another gay man and have no fear of what’s going to happen. But alas, that’s still not good enough. Gay people want their own schools and, most appalling, the right to marry. Why is it that I can’t go to an all-Christian school for free, but gay people can go to an all-gay school? I think it’s sad that we’ve become this type of society.’ did you know that not too long ago, black people could be lynched for no good reason, just for being black basically? should we go back to those times? dont you think that a decrease in killing/violence is a GOOD THING? and the reason you can’t go to a christian school for free is that THERE IS A SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE. ‘I think the historical point of supporting married couples is the hope that they will eventually have children who will be valuable and productive members of society. Since there is no way for a homosexual couple to naturally bear children together, they don’t receive as much societal support. The concept of marriage has always been intended for straight relationships. People just haven’t yet been able to expand that concept to include gays.’ OK, so what if a straight person has issues with infertitilty? should we refuse them the right to marry? how about a straight person that simply has no interest in having children? there is no government push, explicit or implied, that you are supposed to have children.

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Name : joe, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, Age : 19, City : Ann Arbor, State : MI, Country : United States, Occupation : student, Education level : High School Diploma, Social class : Middle class, 

[Chris-Kreg]

Having a child does not contribute in the least to the fragile notion with which we aplly the term society. the human race is a cancer upon the earth, consuming without balance. if we were to truly follow what you might consider ‘gods will’ or the natural order of things, we would simply die so others could live.

User Detail :  

Name : Chris-Kreg, City : Berkeley, State : CA, Country : United States, 

[joe]

‘Values are not fear-based but rather are based on reasoned right and wrong, as well as appropriate and inappropriate behavior.’ bringing up ‘right and wrong’ makes no sense here. you might think that homosexuality is gross, or that your god thinks it is evil, but the fact is that homos arent infringing on anyone else’s life, so there really arent ethics involved. as far as inapproriateness, that is a totally subjective term. and i pity anyone who doesnt allow themselves to do something out of fear of being ‘inappropriate’. ‘Nor would you suggest that society should not make laws regulating this behavior simply because the individuals claim they have a genetic propensity for alcoholism, would you?’ the difference between homosexuality and alcoholism is this: homos arent affecting other people’s lives by what they are doing. drunk people can get violent or get in car accidents which harms other people, which is why there are laws. ‘Individuals who choose to engage in same-gender sex should not be granted special rights based on their sexual mis-orientation. As individuals in our society, they have the right as any other citizen to marry a person of the opposite gender.’ there are no ‘special rights’ involved. all people want is a recognized union with someone they love and care about, which is given to different-sex couples but not same-sex ones.

User Detail :  

Name : joe, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, Age : 19, City : Ann Arbor, State : MI, Country : United States, Occupation : student, Education level : High School Diploma, Social class : Middle class, 

[A.R.]

In response to the first response (Mesg ID 116200484144). I find his/her logic, comparing a homosexual person to an alcoholic, flawed which validates the question of fear. They are two quite different things, one is an addiction and therefore a disease, the other is not. How many people would say that driving a car is the same thing or even in the same ballpark as matrimony and all the work that goes into one. What are the dangers created by two people sharing a life that are analogous to a drunk driver? What is even the similarity between a gay driver and a drunk one? Homosexuals don’t CHOOSE to be gay anymore than heterosexuals choose to be straight, simply you either are or you are not. Rights or laws are constantly revised to fit an evolving society. And homosexuals are not asking for any special rights, they are asking to be included into the ones everyone else enjoys.

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Name : A.R., Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Hispanic/Latino (may be any race), Religion : Atheist, City : New York, State : NY, Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[Luke22481]

CeCe and Renee? by the stars! At first I thought you were joking. Then I realized that in all probability you are deadly serious. I have rarely read such poorly substantiated and ill-reasoned drivel!! I am particularly saddened by CeCe?s response how could a black woman with her historical and cultural background ever oppose granting harmless and justified liberties to another minority group?? Such gross exaggerations! : ?Gay guys who just had hundreds of partners a night.? Ridiculous! It boggles the mind. I come from the Netherlands and here (as in quite a few other European countries) same sex marriages have been an accepted institute for some years. And, no?. this isn?t Sodom and Gomorra, no we don?t have more or worse problems in our society than in yours because of these marriages, no we don?t have too few children. Our society has not and never will crumble at the seems because of gay marriages. I can?t believe Americans actually spend energy and time opposing these marriages rather than focusing on the many problems that are truly ripping your country asunder such as guns, drugs, crooked politicians and hate. The whole ?children? argument is completely moot and flawed from head to tail anyhow: A. It is statistically shown and recognized that about 1 in 10 people are gay. So even if all the gays in America married this still wouldn?t mean there would be too few children. All the other couples would be more than sufficient to produce children. B. Whether they marry or not, Gay people are GAY! They are not going to reproduce regardless of the fact that you seem to think it is okay to deny them what should be a fundamental right On a side note and just in case you have been asleep for the last 30 years, overpopulation is becoming a serious problem for this planet we share. As things stand it wouldn?t be a bad thing at all if people everywhere (especially Americans that consume more resources and pollute more than anyone else) would have fewer children. If people like you and your values are at all representative of America it is small wonder that many countries and people greatly dislike America. And no i am not a muslim/terrorist/commy/whatever.

User Detail :  

Name : Luke22481, City : Rotterdam, State : NA, Country : Netherlands, 

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