4. And no, the "success" of "reparative therapy" and similar methodologies doesn't settle the matter. Sit a person in a room with others telling them that their sinful conduct will assure them an eternity of hell and, not surprisingly, many will claim to have "seen the light" and "changed their ways." Cults engage in similar "programming." Not one shred of credible evidence (e.g. peer-reviewed or longitudinal studies) has ever shown reparative therapy to be effective, which is one reason the American Psychiatric Association rejects it (1997 resolution), as they have rejected the notion that homosexuality is somehow a "mental illness" or "disease." More importantly, the premise of the treatment is flawed. One need fix only that which is "defective," and the only thing "wrong" about homosexuality is an antiquated notion of religious procreation and the refusal of some people to stay out of the private lives of other consenting adults. 5. But fear not...for those needing the reassurance of Science to settle the matter, it eventually will. Perhaps not for all cases, but genetics will show (as it is pointing to now), that homosexuality has an important genetic (non-choice) component. This conclusion, as well as the generally more tolerant trajectory of educated people will, over time, make this a non-issue, as it has become in many areas of Europe. So opponents of gay marriage prepare yourselves...you are the Strom Thurmonds and Trent Lotts of the future...folks who will be back-peddling to explain your anachronistic views on this issue 20 years from now. Just as was done (with most believers anyways) with women, African-Americans and others, Bibles will be reinterpreted to fit the times (go back and read some of the "biblical" defenses of slavery, the curse of Ham, etc.), and we will look back at today with the same feelings of embarrassment and sadness that we now do when reflecting back on the early civil rights struggles of women, racial minorities, the "disabled," etc.
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Name : Coyotefred31872, City : Sunflower, State : NE Country : United States, Some of the responses to this question so far reveal a level of ignorance and bigotry that I didn't think existed in this day and age. To reply to CeCE, the assertion that homosexuality is a choice has been disproven medically, psychologically, and scientifically. You need only look inside yourself and ask when you 'chose' to be straight. You never made that choice, you just are what you are. I'm gay not because I chose it, but because that's just how I was made. If you base your arguments on homosexuality being a choice, you're just plain wrong, and all your subsequent assumptions and beliefs are then based on a falsehood and thus insupportable. And if you think my wanting to marry someone I love is a 'special right', how is this? You can marry someone you love. I want to be able to marry the person I love. What's the difference? How is my marriage a 'special' right? And you say this has to do with values, family, and healthy child-rearing. Well, sure it does. And in the city and state where I live, conservative extremists have pushed through laws to say gays can't marry, that domestic partners can't receive the same benefits as straight couples, and that laws protecting gay people from abuse and discrimination can't even be enacted. And the effect of this is that I and many other gays are going to move somewhere more welcoming, away from our families. Is this what you mean by protecting families? Tearing them apart? And a great many gay couples have children, either of their own or through adoption. These are families that exist. Wouldn't it be better for these families if the state recognized them an provided the same benefits and security that families of straight couples enjoy? How does preventing people from being a legal family strengthen the family? It makes no sense.
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Name : JimC, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 36, City : Dayton, State : OH Country : United States, Occupation : Systems Engineer, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class, With all this defense-of-marriage nonsense, I can't help but wonder what exactly is worth defending about it. Most of the married people I've known have been miserable. The fact that MOST marriages end in divorce is enough to make this painfully obvious. And don't even get me started on the whole Marriage-is-sacred! bullshit. When I can get a drive-up marriage from an Elvis impersonator, when people are on their 4th husband or wife, when there are shows like My Big, Fat, Obnoxious Fiancee on national television, marriage is anything but sacred.
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Name : Dave25993, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Bisexual, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 23, City : Madison, State : WI Country : United States, Occupation : IT Security Analyst, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, Why not marriage? If they can't reproduce anyway, what's the worry? Why the fuss? Gay isn't something that can be controlled, it's not a decision someone can make. It's not their fault their gay. And if two men or two women want to get married, why should anyone stand in the way of their happiness? It's fear that is stopping them from marriage, stupid, ignorant fear. Some people are just too afraid of change, of changing traditions and norms. But if God hates gay people, then He is no one I want to worship. There's enough hatred in the world, why teach it in churches?
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Name : Jenna31015, City : Concord, State : CA Country : United States, I think that making an analogy between gays and alchoholics demonstrates a clear point of view. The author is suggesting that gays are diseased. It seems to me that these decisions are neither logical nor well reasoned. Many people marry with no expectation of children, particularly senior citizens. Many of the other arguments could be, and have, been applied to other groups that people have decided were offensive to their sensibilities.
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Name : duke-l, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Buddhist, Age : 44, City : pittsburgh, State : PA Country : United Kingdom, Occupation : educator, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, Whether you admit it or not America is a Christian country. So many people will find being homosexual wrong. If America was a free country as it is supposed to be than marriage would be open to all people. Gays will be able to marry eventually to support my point look at interracial dating/marriage. Less than 50 years ago this was illegal. It might take years but it will happen.
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Name : J21106, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Bisexual, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 27, City : Adbab, State : CA Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, Wow, am I ever glad to be Canadian. We're a lot more tolerant than you neighbours in the South. It is legal for gay marriage up here, which is why we have so many couples running up here to marry. I am straight & married, and take no issue with gays marrying as their relationship is as valid and loving as my own. Gays marrying does not threaten me, does not lessen my marriage, and does not have a negative effect on society at large. The case instead is largely religious outcry. Religion too often is mixed with politics in order to assist the conservative viewpoint. Gay marriage and legalizing it is indiciative of this. The fear is that [open] gays and gay marriage will 'change the church' and force recognition of those who have been invisible in the pews until now. They have always been there, and as the Church itself says are ALSO GOD'S CHILDREN, and he LOVES THEM ALL. I find those that dispute that to be playing the part of God, which is certainly not their role to do so. All are [supposed to be] welcome in His House. The Bible refers to marriage as a sacred bond from which children should come from... Go forth and make babies in order to spread God's word more. We should truly consider that: A) in the last 2000 yrs the world population has ripped the seams off the planet, hence the NEED to have children-filled-marriages is pretty low B) Gays can adopt, so they CAN have children and C) Finally, God's word has been dissected, manipulated, twisted and corrupted since it was written and the gay marriage issue brings this to light. The King James version is full of hypocrisy; maybe that's where the fear comes in, that modern Christianity itself may finally be judged.
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Name : HMOG21325, City : Wet Coast Up North, State : NA Country : Canada, if that's true, JustMe, then it would follow that married heterosexual couples that don't have any children should also be denied the financial/legal/etc. benefits of marriage. Since after all, these benefits are intended to help the couple support the family to raise children, any married couple who does not actually raise children is freeloading on the marriage system. On the other hand... why can't gay couples create child-raising families via adoption (there's plenty of parentless children out there, many stuck in orphanages) or surrogacy? There's a lot of resistance to that idea too, and that resistance coupled with the resistance to gay marriage gives the impression of a deliberate social catch-22 to keep the gays out of the hetero-only marriage club.
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Name : ken26440, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 28, City : seattle, State : WA Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, Having a child does not contribute in the least to the fragile notion with which we aplly the term society. the human race is a cancer upon the earth, consuming without balance. if we were to truly follow what you might consider 'gods will' or the natural order of things, we would simply die so others could live.
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Name : Chris-Kreg, City : Berkeley, State : CA Country : United States, 'Choosing to be homosexual does not make homosexuality a civil right. Society does not need to endorse or condone any inappropriate behavior that is unacceptable to the functioning of a civilized society. This has nothing to do with fear and eveything to do with values, family and the long-term health of children.' i guess nobody ever informed you that homosexuality is not a choice. you can choose a lifestyle, but you cant choose what sorts of feelings you have. i would like to hear why you think homos affect the functioning of society, family, and childen's health, because this part has me absolutely puzzled. 'I think it's an outrage that gay people want to have the same rights to marriage that straight people do. Back in the 1930s, there was no such thing as gay people. If you were gay, you kept it to yourself because someone could kill you and they're only defense would be, he was gay. Then in the 1970s you saw everything...So now gay people can be gay, someone can know about it, they can even walk down the street and hold hands with another gay man and have no fear of what's going to happen. But alas, that's still not good enough. Gay people want their own schools and, most appalling, the right to marry. Why is it that I can't go to an all-Christian school for free, but gay people can go to an all-gay school? I think it's sad that we've become this type of society.' did you know that not too long ago, black people could be lynched for no good reason, just for being black basically? should we go back to those times? dont you think that a decrease in killing/violence is a GOOD THING? and the reason you can't go to a christian school for free is that THERE IS A SEPARATION BETWEEN CHURCH AND STATE. 'I think the historical point of supporting married couples is the hope that they will eventually have children who will be valuable and productive members of society. Since there is no way for a homosexual couple to naturally bear children together, they don't receive as much societal support. The concept of marriage has always been intended for straight relationships. People just haven't yet been able to expand that concept to include gays.' OK, so what if a straight person has issues with infertitilty? should we refuse them the right to marry? how about a straight person that simply has no interest in having children? there is no government push, explicit or implied, that you are supposed to have children.
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Name : joe, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, Age : 19, City : Ann Arbor, State : MI Country : United States, Occupation : student, Education level : High School Diploma, Social class : Middle class, 'Values are not fear-based but rather are based on reasoned right and wrong, as well as appropriate and inappropriate behavior.' bringing up 'right and wrong' makes no sense here. you might think that homosexuality is gross, or that your god thinks it is evil, but the fact is that homos arent infringing on anyone else's life, so there really arent ethics involved. as far as inapproriateness, that is a totally subjective term. and i pity anyone who doesnt allow themselves to do something out of fear of being 'inappropriate'. 'Nor would you suggest that society should not make laws regulating this behavior simply because the individuals claim they have a genetic propensity for alcoholism, would you?' the difference between homosexuality and alcoholism is this: homos arent affecting other people's lives by what they are doing. drunk people can get violent or get in car accidents which harms other people, which is why there are laws. 'Individuals who choose to engage in same-gender sex should not be granted special rights based on their sexual mis-orientation. As individuals in our society, they have the right as any other citizen to marry a person of the opposite gender.' there are no 'special rights' involved. all people want is a recognized union with someone they love and care about, which is given to different-sex couples but not same-sex ones.
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Name : joe, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, Age : 19, City : Ann Arbor, State : MI Country : United States, Occupation : student, Education level : High School Diploma, Social class : Middle class, Yes, this is a matter of religious prejudice, pure and simple. The arguments made against same-sex marriage tend be knee-jerk responses that reflect intolerance learned in the home and in the church. And when you start looking at these arguments you begin to realize that they are familiar: they often resemble arguments used in the past to try to ban interracial marriages. But I give them too much credit by calling these 'arguments.' They are emotional appeals really, and I have yet to see a hint of logic. They will say, for example, that it is OK for society to ban that which is harmful to society. Yet there is no logical argument proving that same-sex marriage causes any harm to society, nor that such marriage is any threat to the institution of traditional M/F marriage. What IS threatened is the world-view of people who seem to think the superstitions of ancient desert nomads can provide a template for the functioning of a modern multi-cultural society.
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Name : James, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, City : New Haven, State : CT Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, Democratic society is oriented towards reinforcing the 'normal' as put forward by voting. Based on old data, 10% of people are homosexual. That's why gay people are a minority. They don't count yet to politicians, other than as a marginal vote. So, Society's rules are decided by the other 90% of people and the majority of those just aren't liberal enough to insist that their representatives allow same-sex marriage. This is nothing about 'scaring so many'. It's about the rules of society being geared towards the continuance of that society as-is and being anti-change.
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Name : Nick, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 33, City : London, State : NA Country : United Kingdom, Occupation : IT, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, If some people are oppossed to gay marriage because the union would not produce children, then does that mean they are also against the marriage of senior citizens, or perhaps of a man who had been involved in an unfortunate industrial accident? Should a marriage be annulled once the womb dries up? And as a side question - shouldn't people who hate gays think that gay marriage is good? - It stops their promiscuity, and they won't reproduce to create gay-spawn.
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Name : Dave25997, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 27, City : New York, State : NY Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class, Maturity has been described as the ability to work toward a deferred gratification. I offer that gay men are not mature, and the lifestyle blesses and encourages emotionless coupling. A gay man can easily have two nameless orgasms a night, every night, for months or years, with no emotional investments or ties. Thousands of emotionless spasms, without any responsibility. After how many years, a gay man decides, either thru boredom or fear, that if he has not caught a fatal disease, he will, so he settles down with one partner. He now demands that he be entitled to all the benefits of adulthood, without having to pay the emotional dues and commitments, the ones he has spent years mocking. The sacrifices, the monogamy, the accepted responsibilities.
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Name : Bill, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Lutheran, Age : 52, City : Shawnee, State : OK Country : United States, Occupation : Engineer, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 
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