[Claire31957]

Why do fundamentalist Christians cite the Old Testament for their views on homosexuality when it is not part of the Ten Commandments? If they are going to follow this part of the Old Testmanent, how about all the other stuff in there, like dietary restrictions?

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Name : Claire31957, Gender : F, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Secular Humanist, Age : 23, City : Los Angeles, State : CA Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, 

[Joe]

first off please pardon me if i come off as harsh being a non believer. but my question would be i thought 'god created everyone equal' yet i see all the time 'god hates gays' im atheist and straight and i am cool as hell with a bunch of homosexuals. of course these are the same religious folk who fondle on little boys and empty the collection plate into their own pockets. ill link to a story on yahoos front page for you - http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050121/music_nm/life_spongebob_dc IMHO Religion is false. if you believe in a higher up then you might as well practice your religion at home because theres all of a handful of people out there who aint screwed in the head

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Name : Joe, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, Age : 23, City : Lorain, State : OH Country : United States, Education level : High School Diploma, 

[Michael-White]

Clair, the way to argue against the 'Christian Right' (fundamentalists) is not the omission of a use of a certain law listed within the 10 C's. Obviously to cut a partner's skin with razor blades during sex would not be good, and yet to follow your reasoning would render that somewhat excusable as it isn't mentioned within the 10 commandments either. I do think that many 'conduct' issues could rather be understood better by going to a particular Proverb, 6:16, The description of a person who judges someone else may be seen in it: 'A proud look....' so on (the other six that are an abomination to the Lord and six of which he hates. If for instance a friend should confide to me (seeing himself as a Christian) ; 'Those queers are sinners unto God'. I would have to say he is riding on the wrong side of God's wrath. Wouldn't you? I'm not a 'fundamentalist' but with Christian love I would seek each person's liberty and right to love the way his heart deems it necessary, however, with a qualification, love in earnest with no prejudist. Fair enough Claire? What do you think? Michael.

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Name : Michael-White, Age : 55, City : Bedford, State : TX Country : United States, 

[Michael-White19993]

Claire, the best way to approach the instance of a 'fundamentalist' saying something like 'Those gays (Q word used) are sinners to God' ' is to sight the Proverbs 6:16 passage.

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Name : Michael-White19993, Age : 55, City : Bedford, State : TX Country : United States, 

[Friendly Inquirer]

Fundamentalist Christians (of which I am one) can be quite ignorant and mean-spirited regarding race relations and homosexuality. We do need to make some changes. However, It is erroneous to think that homosexuality is only addressed in the Old Testament. The Apostle Paul addresses it specifically in, I believe, at least two places. In fact, in the King James Version, the Bible explicitly states that the 'effeminate' will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven. As a Christian who has met and befriended some wonderful gay people, this saddens me. But I didn't write the book, nor can I change it.

Here's how I look at it: I believe that in some cases, gay tendencies are indeed inborn. I also know that from conversations with radically gay people, that sometimes it is an exercise of choice. I suppose that they just do not feel the same repulse that most straight people would feel, and so they enter that lifestyle. And in other cases (the most) it can derive from environmental factors (sexual abuse, improper role modeling, etc.) I have a beloved uncle who is a drug addict. I oppose his lifestyle. Yet I love him dearly. At the same time, I recognize that this thing has got a hold on him that cannot be broken just like that. We fundamentalists do take the Bible seriously, but we also (in most cases) take seriously that we should love one another. So don't let the propaganda that Christians 'hate' gays sweep you over. Yes, there are a few bad apples in the church (but not THE church), but God will judge them at the appropriate time. My current take on it is this: a gay can be a Christian if they either can live a celibate life or can so change that the straight lifestyle suits them. But they cannot be both a Christian and a practicing gay.

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[Gary21771]

The answer is simple: Jesus came as the fufillment of the Jewish law. So when He died, all the ceremonial aspects of the law (animal sacrifices, dietary laws,etc.) ended, as there was no need for them. As for the moral aspects of the law (The 10 Commandments, homosexuality, etc.), there was no change.

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[Jacob]

I would imagine because it doesn't fit their larger world view of 'man and woman' morality. The New Testament is pretty silent on the issue with a few exceptions in Paul's letters.

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[Liz]

Fundamentalism is an ironic term this group has chosen for itself, as the fundamental precept of Christianity is unconditional love and forgiveness, rather than judgment. The reason their argument sounds weak in regard to homosexuality is that from a Biblical perspective, it is. Homosexuality is mentioned only three times in the Bible. First, when Moses brought the people of Israel out of Egyptian bondage, he gave a series of commandments. Somewhere between his rather graphic and severe condemnations of drinking blood and sex with animals, Moses mentioned that men should not have sex with other men as women. It is important to note that many cultures have considered it the right of the master to rape his slaves. Then, when God sent angels to Soddem, the men of the town tried to rape the angels. That town was then destroyed, but God had already decided to do that. In the New Testament. It seems to me that a more correct interpretation is that casual sex, and most especially rape, are the sins God is trying to forbid. Homosexuality may or may not be in and of itself wrong, the Bible is not that clear.

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[Arnold]

If anyone is asked how they read a book, most people start at the beginning. (I tend to be more of a random reader with some types of literature.) That is why they go to the Old Testament. The dietary laws of the Old Testament have much merit - no fat (scientists have shown fat to be harmful to our heart), the concept of quarantine, etc. God's first commandment was to 'Be fruitful and multiply.' Homosexuals are not able to fulfill that commandment. Leviticus and the other books of the law speak against homosexuality, witchcraft, bestiality etc. Romans in the New Testament speaks of homosexuality as an abomination in the sight of God--among other things too. History has shown that ancient Rome and Greece allowed homosexuality to flourish in their midst, and were gone within 100 years. The strongest cultures throughout history were family- (one husband, one wife) oriented. If you don't want to go to the Bible, look at what man has proven throughout history. Science and history deal with the facts as they are.

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Name : Arnold, Gender : M, City : Edmonton, State : NA Country : Canada, 

[Joel Mason]

To say that the homosexual advances of the men of Sodom was the precipitating cause of that city's destruction is to miss the point of the story. The over-riding ethic of Hebrew and Christian Scriptures is hospitality. The fact that the people of Sodom wanted to have sexual relations with sojourners was horrific and an unbelievable affront to the ethic of hospitality. Don't forget that Lot felt so strongly about this that he offered his own daughters instead. As for Paul and homosexuality the Greek in Romans refers to temple prostitution that took place at the pagan centers of worship. Paul was urging his novice Christian followers to avoid such places.

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[NE25018]

Homosexuals aren't able to fulfill the first commandment, it's true. However, neither are people who are sterile, the elderly, women who have had masectomies, et cetera. Are they supposed to never have sex again? As for the historical data; I'm sorry, but that's a little ridiculous. Both Rome and Greece had thriving cultures for thousands of years. Their downfall was not brought about by homosexuality, but by war and political infighting. Plenty of cultures have no homosexuality taboo, and have still managed to function perfectly well for hundreds of years. Just because you aren't personally acquainted with them doesn't mean they don't exist.

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[Monika21450]

God speaks against homosexuality in both the old and new testaments. However, nowhere in the bible does it say that we should hate gay people. I have a gay aunt and uncle and several gay friends and I love them regardless. Christians are charged with loving others above any other commandment except the first (Love the Lord thy God with all your heart...). The bible talks about homosexuality as being a sin just like murder, theft, lying, cheating, etc. My take on it is that homosexuality is a sin that some people have just like pride is a sin that I have. The difference is that where I try to change that proud part of me, gay people relish in homosexuality instead of trying to change and repent of that sin. Doesn't make them bad people as we all are sinners and will answer to God when our times come. I think a lot of people in this country tend to try to do God's job and rally against sinners when he really doesn't need our help. All throughout history, there are examples of this, ie - the Spanish Inquisition, Christians trying to do God's job. If we Fundamentalist Christians could keep that in mind, the world would be a much better place.

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[Stephen]

The reason why Christians cite the Old Testament for views on homosexuality is that the New Testament backs up the commands of the Old Testament. The King James Version doesn't say it as clearly as modern versions do. Check out how the New American Standard Bible (NASB} phrases it. Pay special attention to 1 Corinthians. Rom 1:26-27 'For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.' 1Cor 6:9-10 'Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators...nor adulterers,...nor homosexuals...will inherit the kingdom of God.' 1Tim 1:8-11 'But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for...homosexuals...and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I (Paul) have been entrusted.' In 1 Timothy, it talks about who the Law (the moral Law of the Old Testament; specifically the Ten Commandments) is for. The Law, the Ten Commandments, is for homosexuals. What does the Law say to the homosexual? He is not to have any other god (either a graven image or a god made up in his mind) except the living Lord God. He is to honor his parents.

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[Kairuka32484]

Recent studies have shown that in translation, some things in the bible were PURPOSEFULLY changed in the King James version. There have been serious suggestions made that the line which now reads 'Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live' was originally 'Thou shalt not suffer a poisoner to live'. There was even a book written around the time the King James version came out that specifically denounced the intentional mistranslation. http://www.hollowhill.com/fun/halloween/witch-bible.htm King James was very superstitious, which is evidenced by the fact that Shakespeare wrote 'MacBeth' SPECIFICALLY for him. http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/kingbio.htm (And that's even a very right wing, fundamentalist Christian website). He was pretty worried about the supernatural, and had a particular fear of 'witches'. I'm not saying that the things you said aren't the actual translations. I'm just saying, it's really worth looking into before you start believing strongly in something a corrupted king may have paid off his translators to 'fix' for him.

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[Greg]

The Roman Empire was NOT gone within 100 years. It lasted several hundred years and the Greek culture that preceded it and is the basis of all Western Civilization as we know it lasted even longer. It's funny how Fundamentalists (I escaped from a Fundamentalist upbringing) can condemn homosexuality but seem to forget that gluttony, pride and greed (especially greed for this group) are all part of the seven deadly sins. It's called buffet-line religion: they pick and choose out of the Bible what they want to fit in to their narrow-minded view of how things 'should' be.

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