Innocent civilians – apparent double-standard?

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  • #32171

    James D.
    Member
    Many reasons. First, war has been declared against us, and non-combatants get killed during a war. Bin Laden and his troops are the enemy; the Taliban is their puppet government; Afghanistan is their country. Second, we (unlike them) aren't purposely targeting civilians (in fact, we go out of our way to avoid them). Third, we know one of the typical cowardly actions of these murderous animals who cower underground is to hide military assets among their innocents, both to protect those assets and to propagandize the deaths of those people should the assets be destroyed. Finally, the deaths we cause in Afghanistan are a tiny fraction of the deaths deliberately perpetrated by the Taliban on their own people for "religious transgressions," and the destruction of the Taliban will save far more innocent lives than it costs. These terrorist cowards are not civilized, they are not acting in a civilized manner and our response to them is far more civilized than they deserve. While we have no animosity toward the poor people of Afghanistan, monstrous, evil people walk among them and must be destroyed.

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    Name : James D., Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, Age : 47, City : Summit, State : NJ Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, 
    #14267

    Danielle27227
    Participant
    Just because 94 percent of Americans are in favor of military action against the Taliban, that doesn't mean 94 percent are in favor of killing innocent people. It's two different things.

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    Name : Danielle27227, Gender : F, City : Southern, State : NJ Country : United States, Social class : Middle class, 
    #27880

    CC19330
    Participant
    There is no double standard. Those who are against military action in Afghanistan are the ones who need their heads examined. We have to speak in 'their language' (i.e. violence) for them to understand. Peace negotiation won't work this time around. I am sick of anti-war protests and sit-ins. This isn't Vietnam, baby.

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    Name : CC19330, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Asian, Age : 22, City : Somewhere, State : NA Country : Canada, Occupation : student, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class, 
    #36093

    Alex J.
    Participant
    The simple answer is that not all Americans are in favor of these actions. Now the in-depth explanation: Despite our claim of being a democracy, we're not. The United States is barely a Republic, but is closer to an oligarchy that must respond to public whim. And the current whim is for revenge. If you study the U.S. newspapers, you see that the politicians are focusing on aspects of the 'war' that do not reflect the human casualties. The country is being presented a view that we are punishing Afghanistan, when in reality we are doing nothing of the kind. I am disgusted at the actions of my government, but until elections I have no way to affect the situation beyond taking part in a few demonstrations.

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    Name : Alex J., Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Bisexual, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Jewish, Age : 17, City : Elkins Park, State : PA Country : United States, Occupation : High School student, Education level : Less than High School Diploma, Social class : Middle class, 
    #46466

    ACC25025
    Participant
    Juat take a look at how the various posters are continuing the double standard: 1)America, and thus all Americans, are always innocent and acting out of solely the purest of motives. This is blatantly untrue, as anyone who has read even the tiniest bit of history should know. 2)Bin Laden's people targeted civilians while the US does not. Now while the second part is somewhat true (but only in this very limited instance, the US military DID, in fact, target civilians during World War II, Korea, Vietnam,and the invasion of Panama), the first is not. Sheesh, how blind can you be? The PENTAGON was bombed, ferpetessake, the biggest military target around. And as anyone who knows military doctrine can tell you, economic centers like the World Trade Center ARE prime military targets of the first order, just like their civilian employees are. The US military is apparently also zeroing in on economic targets themselves in Afghanistan, such as power stations and oil depots. Yes, they are trying to avoid loss of civilian life, but not for any noble reasons. They are afraid of the public reaction in Arabic countries that are allied with the US. 3)American lives are apparently worth more than those of people in other countries to most Americans. This has a long history in the US. During the Vietnam War, 'Vietnamization' or the substituting of South Vietnamese soldiers for American ones, was OK with the vast majority of the US. Once Asian people were being killed in vast numbers instead of Americans, the protests against the war in Vietnam dropped to nothing. Some people apparently do think Afghani lives don't count as much. As long as the numbers of dead innocents don't rise too high or become too embarassing, the attitude of most Americans will stay the same. That is just plain sickening, to me at least. All human life should be equally valued. I'd like to see Bin Laden taken alive and put on trial myself. It'd be the only way to definitively prove we are not as bad as he is. And the way we've backed Israel uncritically while they kill Palestinians with guns and bullets we gave them, we have been.

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    Name : ACC25025, Race : Mexican and American Indian, Age : 36, City : Phoenix, State : AZ Country : United States, Occupation : Grad student in history, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, 
    #44860

    kame
    Member
    The terrorists have declared war on the United States and in so doing see no problem with killing innocent civilians. We have declared war, and see no problem with killing innocent civilians, either. In my opinion, either both the United States and the terrorists should see no problem with killing each other's innocent civilians, or we both should be opposed to killing innocents in this 'war' altogether. Yes, this is a double standard: we are outraged when our own people are killed 'for no reason,' yet when we kill innocent bystanders on the other side of the war, we just call it 'byproducts of war.' I'm ashamed - not of being American - but by how stupid the human species is. Religious and patriotic fundamentalism are self-serving and self-righteous. It's embarassing.

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    Name : kame, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Asian, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 25, City : New York, State : NY Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class, 
    #15837

    Nelson-A20155
    Participant
    I am not a US Citizen, I'm Venezuelan and American (the continent). Not only does the US population support the military actions, so does America (the continent)in general. Four Venezuelan businessmen lost their lives at the WTC. Thousands of vacationing Venezuelans were stranded in airports (flights stopped). My sister was supposed to fly to New York that day. So not only US Americans were affected, people of all America were. The Venezuelan government (Chavez) is friendly to many radicals (Cuba, Iraq, Lybia, etc),but the Venezuelan people are not. There have been US support concerts and even the Caracas firemen held a prayer service in honor of their homologous in New York. We see it this way, a military's job is to protect a nation from present or future harm. That's what they're doing. And finally, the civilian casualties in Afghanistan are far from reaching 5000, and we're sure they never will.

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    Name : Nelson-A20155, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 32, City : Caracas, State : NA Country : Venezuela, Occupation : Lawyer/Business, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, 
    #19603

    Sam28536
    Participant
    ...that number of civilian deaths that the Taliban are reporting are likely to be drastically inflated. In addition Taliban forces are believed to be hidnig out in civilian areas, essentially using civilians as shields. I do not support my government killing innocents, but I also recognize that they share the responsiblity of these deaths with the Taliban themselves.

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    Name : Sam28536, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, Age : 23, City : Savannah, State : GA Country : United States, Occupation : Student, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class, 
    #39091

    Brian22981
    Participant
    Hypocrisy knows no bounds. It follow the old American saying, 'it depends on whose ox is being gorred.' In pioneer days, any farmer's ox which attacked a person had to be'gorred' or killed. Everybody agreed on this as long as it was somebody else's ox. When it was your ox, then excuses and reasons for withholding punishment were found. The simple fact is, there is no rationale for war for fighting. It just happens and innocent people get hurt.

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    Name : Brian22981, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 26, City : Peru, State : IN Country : United States, Occupation : journalist, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 
    #18199

    Roh29614
    Participant
    The events of Sept. 11 were not the first attacks on Americans. Look at some of the other attacks from years past. The original World Trade Center bombers were brought to justice, but the boss got away. Lockerby, Scotland, there was a huge investigation. The U.S.S. Cole, another investigation, and arrests of a few of bin Laden's soldiers. Embassy bombings. Many attacks, and probably more to come. The events of Sept. 11 were obscene. Do you think arresting a few of bin Laden's soldiers has done any good? Has it stopped anything? We Americans realize it has not. The Taliban were given more than enough opportunity to turn him over, and chose not to do so. They may do yet another obscene act, but we will not sit idly twiddling our thumbs. Ever hear of a Lancaster bomber? You think they just bombed German troops? I bet they killed enough civilians to fill graveyards. You British are not without blood on your hands, either. You could be speaking German, but you did what you had to do and are still a great nation because of it.

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    Name : Roh29614, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 47, City : Cincinnati, State : OH Country : United States, Occupation : Firefighter, Education level : High School Diploma, Social class : Lower middle class, 
    #27552

    Yuna
    Participant
    I think wars are idiotic. They involve ignoring the fact that other people are human beings just like you and reducing them to 'enemies.' I don't support a war with Afghanistan, but I do support hunting down those terrorists who bombed the World Trade Center. I saw on a news program that the Afghanistan people are tired of war. I would be too if I were in their situation. The terrorists are ruining it for everybody. So I'm not in favor of a war, and I bet a lot of people wouldn't be if they just thought about it. But I also know that some Americans have a fascination with war, thinking it is all grand and something that 'must be done.' Some people I know watch bloody movies and play vicious video games. When I asked my mother how she would feel if she had to go to war and risk her life, she conveniently said it is a woman's job to be at home taking care of the children. So in other words, it's OK to send someone else to war, but not yourself. I just wish there were more communication and understanding, not only with other countries but with people living together in the same country.

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    Name : Yuna, City : Jamaica, State : NY Country : United States, 
    #26570

    Anonymous
    Inactive
    if been trying to send a page here, but i guess they haven't liked it, its the page of the afgaani news chanel.but i found a even better page that is translated into english.

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    #43812

    Janne
    Participant
    Is there a douple standard in England as well.

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    Name : Janne, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Lutheran, Age : 31, City : Helsinki, State : NA Country : Finland, Occupation : economist, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 
    #29456

    Sherman
    Participant
    The statement that 'we see no problem with killing innocent civilians' simply isn't true. none of us want war, but we know that in a war innocents do get killed, Our enemies attacked civilians at our embassy in africa and we did not respond because we did not want war, when they attacked the USS COLE we did not respond because we wanted peace, however when they attacked over 5000 civilians and declared war on us, then we saw no other choice but to respond in kind. If america had the same mentality as the terrorists and did not care about innocents as you suggest then we would have simply launched a few nukes and destroyed their entire country and everyone in it in a matter of days. I haven't agreed with this countries policies in many instances, but this is one of those times when we simply had no other choice but to punish those who are responsible for launching blatant attacks on innocent people.

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    Name : Sherman, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Black/African American, Religion : Christian, Age : 34, City : Richmond, State : CA Country : United States, Occupation : Contractor, Education level : Technical School, Social class : Middle class, 
    #18665

    Sherman
    Participant
    It's not that we don't care about innocent civilians, we simply understand that it's an unavoidable fact of war that innocents do get hurt and killed. The difference is that we don't go out of our way to kill them. The Taliban attacked civilians in our embassy, and targeted our civilians at the world trade center simply because we are american, and because they think that we are to weak and cowardly to strick back. The only way to deal with people like that is with a strong hand. It is a shame that innocent people have and will continue to get hurt in this war, however we did give the Taliban a way out of the situation many times before we actually went in with our military and if Ben Laden was so concerned with the afgani people he could have simplt turned himself in and avoided all of this.

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    Name : Sherman, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Black/African American, Religion : Christian, Age : 34, City : Richmond, State : CA Country : United States, Occupation : Contractor, Education level : Technical School, Social class : Middle class, 
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