[Anders]

Here in Finland, we work five days a week, have a one-month summer vacation and two weeks winter vacation. A work day is always 8 hours (unless you agree to longer days - for a substantially more money). Almost everyone is in a union that looks after our rights. When we retire, we get our retirement wages from the government (we pay a certain percentage from our wages every month toward retiring). Even if you never had a job, you'll get a retirement salary - not much, but enough to get by on. I've heard it is normal to have a two-week vacation in the United States - no more - and that sometimes you get fired before retiring so that your company won't have to pay any retirement wages. And if you've never worked, you get nothing. Is this true? And if so, are you so motivated by your jobs that you actually enjoy this work-filled life?

User Detail :  

Name : Anders, City : Helsinki, State : NA Country : Finland, 

[Rick29949]

The United States has public assistance for people who qualify (usually it's administered by the state, not the federal government). Most workers in the United States (the most productive workforce in the world) would prefer to have more time off. But our system is unfortunately controlled by the powerful rich elite who benefit from such exploitation. U.S. labor unions are not strong for various reasons (one of them being their own corruption). When unions take a strong stand against their employers, the companies often close U.S. plants and open new ones in countries with cheap, non-union labor.

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Name : Rick29949, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, City : Springfield, State : OH Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[James D.]

Americans certainly have a different attitude than you do. You're right about the two weeks vacation and no retirement salary (to us this is an oxymoron - a salary is what you get for working, not for not-working) if you've never worked. (But how do people who've never worked support themselves? What do they do all day? How can they retire if they've never done anything? And doesn't it feel bad to you when you've worked your whole life and they've done nothing but sit around and spend the money you pay in taxes?) The 'firing just before you retire' question is mostly false, though it has been known to happen. Retirement plans (aside from the government's Social Security) vest over many years, and even if you get fired the day before retirement, you'll still get all the money you've contributed up until then. There are also ways to move retirement funds from job to job, so if you change jobs you'll keep all the benefits you've saved from previous ones. Finally, Americans enjoy being productive and succeeding, and we dislike relying on the government or anyone else to bail us out. We pride ourselves on not needing others to support us, and if this means working very hard, we are willing to do so. That doesn't mean we are always happy and motivated working, but we are happier when we are working and getting by than we are when we are not working and getting welfare checks. We want to succeed, but the price for success is hard work and the possibility of failure.

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Name : James D., Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, Age : 47, City : Summit, State : NJ Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, 

[Matthew]

Isn't it sad, Anders? Having my heritage in Western Europe, I don't understand why in this country we decided to work for the 'man' over enjoying our God-given right to a garden of Eden. Oh wait, now I remember: Money has replaced God, and the 'man' turned the garden of Eden into a retail outlet with a video feed. Long live the civilization that treats all its people well.

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Name : Matthew, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 45, City : New York, State : NY Country : United States, 

[Alex J.]

The issue is more than one of workers' rights; it's the entire capitalistic outlook. First, American tradition has been pure capitalism. Social Security was not introduced until the 1930s, and even then it only kicked in at age 65; people had a life expectancy back then of 67. Nor was it intended to be a primary source of income, but an income supplement. People were expected to work their entire lives and retire only if they could provide for themselves. Likewise, vacations were reserved for people who could afford them. The American outlook has been that you're not worth anything if you aren't rich, and if you aren't rich, that's because you aren't good enough to be rich. Thus, sadly, everything you've said about America is true. Lately, this has become a near-national crisis as the country divides over who should take care of the sick and elderly.

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Name : Alex J., Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Bisexual, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Jewish, Age : 17, City : Elkins Park, State : PA Country : United States, Occupation : High School student, Education level : Less than High School Diploma, Social class : Middle class, 

[Steve27695]

The normal work week in the United States is also 40 hours. I would guess that most salaried people work closer to 50 hours per week. Most people start with two weeks vacation but get more as they get more time with the company. After 10 years of service most U.S. companies provide four or more weeks vacation. We, too, pay into government retirement plans (Social Security) as well as private and company-run plans. The payout for the government plan is very meager and needs to be augmented to live a decent lifestyle post-retirement.

Firing someone in order to deny them earned retirement benefits violates about a zillion laws. Even those who do not earn much money will get social security, but the amount is very much below the poverty level. The total amount U.S. workers pay into the government retirement plan is about 8.5 percent of their pay. And most people I know under 40 years old just view this as a tax to which we will never see a payout.

As to the last question: most people I know like their jobs but are not wedded to them. However, we do not enjoy forking over 60 percent of our pay to the government so it can take care of all our needs throughout life, a la European countries. In fact, Americans resist mightily any and all attempts by the government to intrude more on our lives. I will tell you, though, that most global corporations avoid having European facilities if they can, because of the very entitlement mentality of the workers and government you describe. It's sad to say, but it is a global economy, and Europeans - with their high taxes, weak currencies, onerous disability laws and low worker productivity - are quickly becoming obsolete places to do business. If unchecked, my guess is that within 20 years the primary economy of Europe will be tourism.

User Detail :  

Name : Steve27695, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 45, City : Houston, State : TX Country : United States, Occupation : Corporate Cubicle Slug, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper class, 

[Mel20759]

No. I think I'm going to move to Finland.

User Detail :  

Name : Mel20759, Gender : F, Age : 20, City : Denver, State : CO Country : United States, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class, 

[Dan27186]

All that you have heard is more or less true. Vacations are typically two weeks and never any more unless you're lucky or are a student without a job. Most people work overtime all the time, and though most receive time-and-a-half wages, many others don't receive extra compensation, or they don't get as much as those with better jobs. And employers constantly manuever to maximize profit and minimize cost, even if it is at the expense of their employees. That's why there's always a huge panic whenever two corporations merge, because mass layoffs and huge shakedowns are inevitable in order to successfully birth the newest conglomerated behemoth.

As for gaining satisfaction from this, it is my observation that a fortunate few gain satisfaction from their jobs, and the rest are simply trying to earn a living. Also, Americans are fully accustomed to this, being isolated from the rest of the world geographically, and being told from day one that hard work is the greatest virtue; even if 'hard work' means working 90 hours a week at a job that will probably give you a serious heart attack by the time you're 40. There are unions and labor measures, but they've lost steam in the past few decades, and many times fight losing battles. You should also research working conditions of immigrants, particularly those from Mexico/Latin America and the Far East. In the United States, as far as business goes, maximum profit and minimum expenditure is the ultimate standard.

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Name : Dan27186, Gender : M, Race : Hispanic/Latino (may be any race), Religion : Pentecostal, Age : 22, City : Los Angeles, State : CA Country : United States, Occupation : Student, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class, 

[laura26075]

Partly true. If you have never worked you can get Social Security from a spouse who worked. We contribute a part of our paycheck to Social Security, but it seems like it's not going to be enough to cover all of us by the time those of us in our 30s and 40s retire. There is also medical coverage for senior citizens, but it doesn't cover the prescription drugs, which cost a fortune, often 3-4 times as much as they cost in other countries for the same drugs. 2 weeks of paid vacation is typical, sometimes more if you've been at a company a longer time or have a higher level job, but it seems like most people change jobs a lot. Most companies have a rule that you are 'vested' in the retirement plan after a certain amount of time, say, five years, so even if they fire you, you still can receive some money based on how long you worked there. It probably won't be enough, though. We are expected to save on our own for retirement, and there are tax benefits to doing so. My company matches part of the money I put in my retirement account (called a 401K), and I can invest the money however I wish. Sadly, Unions are becoming less and less common as companies hope to convince workers that they have a common interest and should not be at odds with each other. I disagree. People at the bottom don't get paid enough to prepare for retirement by saving money, buying a home, and so on. And the same low-wage people often don't get any paid vacation or medical coverage - they are just paid for the time they work and that's it. It's not uncommon for workers who get vacation time to be too busy at work to take the time off, whether it's true or only in their imagination I don't know, but in my observation, Americans tend to have a strong work ethic - many of us feel responsible for our jobs being done well, even if it takes extra time and effort. Is it worth it? I take satisfaction in my job being done properly, and I do get a large part of my self-worth from my job. I've had other jobs I hated, but that's incentive to change and find something better, and if it means learning something new or getting educated, I make that a priority. But I don't have children, so I know it's different for others.

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Name : laura26075, Gender : F, Age : 41, City : los angeles, State : CA Country : United States, Social class : Upper middle class, 

[Brian23042]

I think that's a bit extreme, but there is some truth to it. One big issue in America is the gap between rich and poor, and frankly, the hard-working and the lazy. I'm the managing editor of a daily newspaper, and as part of the journalism industry, see some of the worse hours/time-off situations in the country. But, my chief photographer has worked at this paper for 26 years and has 5 weeks of vacation each year, plus sick days and personal days. There is no way he would be without retirement income, regardless of the company's decision to fire him or sell out to another corporation. He has a 401k program that he's been putting money into since he began working. He'll also have Social Security benefits upon retirement. The Social Security benefits are similar to your government pension plan, where they take a percentage of your pay from each check. Obviously, the more you've earned over a lifetime, the more you'll get from that Social Security fund. I feel that people in America have a great deal of choice when it comes to their work, but those choices have consequences and there won't be as large a safety net for failure as there are in more socialist countries. An individual can choose to go to college and become, for the most part, whatever they want. If they're a teacher, for instance, they'll have nearly four months off each year and a state-backed retirement plan. If they choose to be a lawyer they'll work 80 hours a week and have their own retirement plan. The lawyer will probably make more than the teacher, but he'll work more hours and holidays. And, you can choose not to work, but that will result in being poor (big suprise). I would say, in America, you can go as high as you want to, but no one is going to, or should, bail you out if you make bad choices.

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Name : Brian23042, City : Peru, State : IN Country : United States, 

[Bill]

will attempt to answer your questions based on my knowledge working for a major international corporation (based in the United States) for the past 20 years. I am considered 'salaried,' and my days are a minimum of eight hours. Most are 9-10 hours, some 12-14 depending on the time of month/year. I do not get compensated for the additional hours. My company does not have a union, but many companies do. My wife is a teacher in the public school system and is represented by a union. The United States has a Social Security program that pays workers (and/or their spouses) a retirement pension based on earnings during their career.

Generally speaking, social security pensions are inadequate, and many employers offer an additional pension and/or special retirement savings incentives. I believe a person needs to work (or be the spouse of a worker) to get social security benefits. The United States has a welfare program that, presumably, will provide a safety net for those who do not have the funds to live on, post retirement.

Vacations vary by company and length of service. In my company, you would receive two weeks vacation in each of years 1 - 4, three weeks in years 5-9, four weeks vacation in years 10-19, and five weeks for 20 or more years of service. I do not believe companies or the public sector are required to follow any type of vacation award, but in order to attract and retain qualified employees, they must offer these benefits to compete.

The United States has federal regulations that protect workers, but there are instances in which unscrupulous companies find a way to fire someone so they do not have to pay retirement benefits. The courts are full of discrimination cases in which employees sue, citing age discrimination or wrongful termination.

As far as motivation, generally, motivated employees will advance in their careers and get paid higher salaries. To get ahead in this country , one has to work hard and accept the work-filled schedule as a part of life. Feel free to email me with additional questions, I would enjoy the interaction.

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Name : Bill, Gender : M, City : n/a, State : NA Country : United States, 

[Misho]

We don't fire our employees before retirement, but we have what's called a 'buy out' program for long term employees because its cheaper to give them a cash settlement and have them retire early or find a job elsewhere so the organization can hire younger employees at lower salaries with less benefits. My professional level co-workers and I average about 50-60 hours a week. It is frowned upon if we actually try to leave the office at 5:00 p.m. Also, I have not had a 2 week vacation since 1994. Usually, one week is the standard in our office, although we all have 'leave time' well in excess of two weeks, we usually 'sell' our leave time for cash, because our office is always 'too busy' or 'understaffed' to allow anyone more than a week at a time. Research also shows that more and more Americans take 'working' vacations. When I take a few days off, I usually have to leave my cell phone number with my boss 'in case I'm needed.' Americans take great pride in their work and derive much of their self-esteem from their jobs. In social conversations, one of the first questions you will hear is 'so, what do you do?' We always have to be 'doing', our day planners have to be filled or we don't feel important. So, on some level we must enjoy it. I was always told it was called our 'Protestant Work Ethic' A lot of it has to do with our immigrant roots. We came to this country poor and struggled to make a life in a new world. It took industriousness and hard work which has been transformed into an integral component of American culture. In short, enjoy what you have in Finland, 'cause you'll have to work your butt off in the U.S.!

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Name : Misho, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 36, City : Las Vegas, State : NV Country : United States, Occupation : Human Resources Analyst, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[Steve27679]

I found your follow-up response very interesting. A year ago, as a part of my job, I commissioned a European Tax law firm to analyze individual employee tax situations in several European countries including Finland. The results I received were that Finnish employees had the following income taxes withheld from their paychecks. 1. Country income taxes are progressive but for middle incomes around $50,000 US or about 200,000 Markka the tax rate is 32%. 2. Income taxes to cities or town are flat and between 15% to 20%. 3. Church tax is 1 to 2% if you are Lutheran or Orthodox. 4. Mandatory pension, Health, and unemployment taxes are 7.9% total. So the total of these is over 60%. This of course excludes capital gains, inheritance, and all property and sales taxes. Did I pay a lot of money to a tax law firm for nothing? To compare, in the US for the same level income and life style person in Texas where I live the total would be around 31% with normal deductions.

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Name : Steve27679, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 45, City : Houston, State : TX Country : United States, Occupation : Corporate Slug, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper class, 

[Kevin26329]

I have a perspective that may be of interest since I am an American who has worked in Finland the past couple of years. I'm a professional and was recruited to work here, although I had some personal reasons for wanting to come here. I've also lived in other European countries (six years in Europe), but I've spent most of my working life in the United States so I have a fairly good understanding of how people live in the two countries.

It's true that in Finland people have regular eight-hour work days, and that all people get a standard five weeks of vacation a year. The government does provide social assistance (what we call welfare) if you're unemployed. This is also the case in other Scandinavian and many western European countries. The positive side is that there are very few downright poor people and there is relatively little crime, which can probably be attributed in large part to their social system. The down side is that tax rates are very high in order to support such a system (I'm paying around fifty percent). At least in Finland, the level of social assistance is sufficient to cover necessities such as housing, clothes and food, but little else.

I have managed to make a number of friends, and some are working and some get social assistance. The average salary, by U.S. standards, is relatively low, and there's not a large gap between those who work and those who get assistance, so there is not a tremendous incentive to get a job if you're unemployed. Also, the average level of savings is surprisingly low; after paying bills, most people have little left over. The philosophy here is to have a society in which people are not too poor and not too rich (the more you earn, the more you're taxed). The system works in Finland but probably wouldn't work in the United States, primarily because Americans have historically been reluctant to pay the higher taxes that would be necessary, and the because of the differences between the workings of the economies, e.g. with regard to regulatory aspects affecting businesses and the hiring and firing workers.

I don't want to sound too negative because Finland is a nice country that is very orderly, clean and fairly well run. However, the opportunities are a bit too limiting for my tastes, so I'll probably return home sometime in the future. The consensus that people in the United States work more and have less leisure time is correct, but the rewards are often greater.

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Name : Kevin26329, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Age : 38, City : Helsinki, State : NA Country : Finland, Occupation : Consultant, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class, 

[Kate]

I pretty much agree with the responses you've received. You might wonder : How did Americans' culture drift so far from Europe's? After all, the United States started as European colonies. I think the difference is that many (most?) of those colonies were founded by religious fanatics. The 'work ethic' is part of our heritage from that era. I've seen polls of American workers that say workers would prefer more time off, even if their wages dropped, but they don't have that option. Maybe we will become more European over time.

User Detail :  

Name : Kate, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 45, City : denver, State : CO Country : United States, Occupation : engineer, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class, 

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