[Susan]

Why is it that a lot of men can't handle a woman who is emotionally and financially secure? Although most are initially intrigued by my ability to take care of myself, they soon try to regain the 'upper hand' or control. Is this a male trait? Also, because I speak my mind without hesitation (without using ignorance or profanity, mind you), I am referred to as 'bitchy.' Why is this?

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Name : Susan, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 41, City : Jacksonville, State : FL Country : United States, Occupation : Real Estate, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[JerryS]

There are many possible answers to your question, and without knowing you, I can't tell which ones fit your circumstances. You are reporting your own observations, so you are not a third-party observer, and your own personality is part of the equation. First, many people need a certain amount of interdependence in a relationship; sometimes a lot of it. Clearly, those people are not for you. Some people are dog people, some people are cat people. Second, it may be that your pride in your independence leads you to certain behaviors that others don't like, and you may exhibit those behaviors more dramatically (or even exclusively) with men than with women friends. Remember, I don't know you; I can't tell if you are bitchy or not. I had a female acquaintance who went out of her way to 'assert her independence' toward her husband in ways that I thought were inconsiderate to the point of cruelty, i.e. hiding money, having affairs, lying about where she was going and when she would be back, etc. She wasn't, to my mind, secure and independent; she was nuts. Third - and this is a problem between me and my wife - men and women tend to have different social styles. I and my male friends tend to reach a decision (where to go to lunch, for example) based on who feels more strongly: I might say pizza, a friend might say burgers, and then we negotiate from there. If I really, really want pizza, I'll dig in my heels and typically prevail; if the other guy really, really wants burgers, I'll probably go along after some give and take. My wife and some other women I've known tend to take any 'second opinion' as outright disagreement, not a stage in a negotiation. If my wife says pizza and I say burgers, she'll figure I wouldn't have spoken up at all if pizza were acceptable, and she'll either (from her viewpoint) give in without a word or (because she is independent and secure) she'll announce that we'll have to eat separately. The former leaves me feeling like a bully, because I might well have gone along if she had persevered, and the latter leaves me feeling rejected. Different styles, unintended messages. Does any of that help?

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Name : JerryS, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Jewish, Age : 52, City : New Britain, State : CT Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class, 

[Steve K.]

The answer is relatively simple: insecurity. The solution is far too complicated for individuals. The men you speak of still live in the old world, where women stay at home or have a job one would not want to call a career. The level of personal and professional independence you have achieved is threatening to many men, whether they are themselves professionally successful or not, because they are not as certain about their emotional security. Like anyone else who knows what they're looking for, you're going to need a lot of patience. It's much easier to find something if you have no idea what you're looking for, but you probably won't like what you find once you fully realize what you have. If you manage to hold out and find someone worthy of you, you cannot help but be happy. I guess it's the old rule of delayed gratification.

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Name : Steve K., Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Black/African American, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 29, City : Edmonton, Alberta, State : CA Country : Canada, Occupation : Secondary Teacher, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[HM]

I don't know if things have always been this way, but I have never had men try to 'regain the upper hand' in college, or now. I did very well in school and never really had that come up as an issue in my relationships in college, though it did intimidate guys in high school. My degree is in engineering, which has been a predominantly male field, and most of the men I dated were engineers. I married an engineer! It was important to my husband that his wife would hold a full-time job so that he was not responsible for 'bringing home the bacon' on his own. This jived with what I know of many of the men I dated. He and I make similar amounts of money, and it has never been an issue that our successes are similar.

There may be some men out there who aren't ready to accept women in 'non-traditional' roles, but in my peer group (20s-30s), that sentiment is not openly held.

On the question of speaking your mind, I've been working on my assertiveness. I am finding that there is a fine line between 'bitchy' and assertive. I have not been told (yet) that I've crossed that line, but I do recognize that it's there. I see it in my reaction to the other women I work with (and how assertive/aggressive they are/are not). It may take time for the public to learn the difference as well. In the meantime, I've been learning when to speak my mind and when to use other methods to get my point across.

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Name : HM, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 26, City : Cincinnati, State : OH Country : United States, Occupation : Engineer, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[J.D.]

I would welcome a relationship with a woman who is both financially and economically secure. It seems that I meet either one or the other. Women who are finacially secure tend to have emotional problems, and emotionally secure women tend to have finacial problems. I am sure there are many of you out there, though. I am curious about why these men have to 'regain the upper hand.' Is there some sort of dominance issue here? Perhaps I am too much of an idealist, but I believe a good relationship should rely on a balance between strengths and weaknesses of two people. I can relate to the speaking of one's mind without hesitation. In my case, it is often referred as 'Foot IN Mouth Disease.' It's just the way I am.

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Name : J.D., Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : No organized religion, Age : 34, City : Dallas, State : TX Country : United States, Occupation : Automotive Technician, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[S.]

In a male dominant society, men tend to want control, to nurture and to be a provider for 'their' woman. They feel they would be seen as weak if their woman seemed to be more dominant than them. Within your socio-demographic, men will tend to prefer 'feminine' females. We have had years of being fed an 'image' of the perfect woman by the media. This ranges from Disney's Snow White - a stay-at-home housewife, if you will, who prepares the house for her seven working men, to Sleeping Beauty - who falls asleep and is awoken by her perfect man (you can't get any more passive than that) - to a modern advertising industry that says, 'Use our product, become more attractive and capture your man.'

This is also a society that puts physical beauty over intelligence. You can say I'm stronger than you, but you can't say I'm more intelligent than you without appearing conceited. Any woman not conforming to any of the above stereotyping will be seen as an outsider and will be referred to in derogatory terms. So the short answer is you are causing male insecurity! Although most would deny or not recognize it if questioned.

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Name : S., Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Humanist, Age : 33, City : London, State : NA Country : United Kingdom, Occupation : Company Director, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[Dan27153]

Many guys possess various levels of insecurity, and much of it is due to the 'macho ideal.' According to this ideal, which is no doubt perpetuated by their circle of friends, they ought to be the top dog. Imagine a cover of a cheesy romance novel in which some buff pirate guy is holding the quivering, helpless nobleman's daughter in his arms, and that's basically the macho ideal in a nutshell. In contemporary terms, a guy who doesn't have mastery over his life (which means having the upper hand financially and emotionally in a dating/marriage relationship) is seen as falling short of this. He is perceived as seeking the financially (more) stable woman as his 'sugar momma,' and he is perceived as seeking the emotionally (more) stable woman in order to have someone other than himself wear the pants in the relationship. Essentially it's a matter of machismo, ego and insecurity.

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Name : Dan27153, Gender : M, Race : Hispanic/Latino (may be any race), Religion : Pentecostal, Age : 22, City : Los Angeles, State : CA Country : United States, Occupation : student, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class, 

[RH30170]

A lot of men can't handle women who are emotionally/financially secure because a lot of men are insecure, and we need to have the emotional/financial 'upper-hand' to make ourselves feel important and strong. I think strength is very important to most men, and if we can't see it within ourselves, then we need to see it externally (through the upper-handisms). I think this is primarily a masculine trait. Another reason men feel the need to gain control is that women often encourage male dominance by shying away from men who do not have these 'alpha-male' characteristics. However, I don't think women are referred to as 'bitchy' because they speak their minds or are emotionally independent. I think many women who are manipulative, bossy, obnoxious and/or irrational are referred to as 'bitchy' because they are just that: bitchy.

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Name : RH30170, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Black/African American, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 27, City : Syracuse, State : NY Country : United States, Occupation : Law Student, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[Lucy22460]

Like H.M., who also responded to this question, I am an engineer, and the majotiry of my coworkers are men. It has always been this way, and I have never had any problems. Of course, I have met some men who were insecure about their own position in the world, and those are generally the men who have issues with professional women. I have had many coworkers and even some managers who were Indian, Pakistani or Persian/Iranian. These guys are from cultures that are stereotypically very male-dominated. Yet I have never had a problem with them. In fact, some of these guys are my close friends. I am definitely someone who speaks my mind - all the time. If I am not speaking mt mind, people ask me if I am feeling OK. There is a line between assertiveness and bitchiness. I have known and worked with women who crossed that line. In my observation, those were the women who are expecting men to hold them back, so they are already on the defensive. They are looking for chauvinism, so they see it everywhere. Or they transfer their feelings about their experiences with certain men onto all men, expecting them all to be the same way. These women are the ones always trying to get the upper hand to prove they are just as good or better than the men.

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Name : Lucy22460, Gender : F, Age : 26, City : San Jose, State : CA Country : United States, Occupation : Engineer, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[Justin26874]

I have a male friend, a pushy man who walks around giving a lot of unsolicited advice and negative critism using an inflated idealization of himself as a yardstick. People hate him behind his back, but they tolerate him to his face because he has 'juice,' or what-have-you. I tell him people don't really like him, but he responds as if such a thing couldn't be possible. He refuses to acknowledge that people don't appreciate his usually negative input because, after all, he's just 'speaking his mind,' and there's nothing wrong with that, right? Perhaps you are such a person. Here's a failsafe test: if you read the tone of this post as 'jealous,' you're probably the kind of jerk described above, and the part when your boyfriends 'try to regain the 'upper hand' is probably the point at which they get sick of taking your crap.

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Name : Justin26874, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, City : Chicago, State : IL Country : United States, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class, 

[Misho]

I believe we all choose relationships with people who are at the same level of dysfunction as ourselves, i.e. our relationships mirror the 'issues' we need to work out. So the question is: why are you attracting/or are attracted to those type of men where control seems to be the issue? I also speak my mind without hesitation but am not typically referred to as 'bitchy' (lacking prudence, diplomacy, tact, maybe) so you may be doing more than merely 'speaking your mind.' I'm independent, opinionated, etc. I am also 6'1", which adds a whole new dimension to the male insecurity deal. Six years ago, I married a man who has all the same traits, which makes us fiercely competitive. He calls me a 'bull dog,' I say he is 'hard-headed,' but in the end, we have tremendous love and respect for each other and our individual strengths and talents. He never tries to dominate me, nor is he a milksop to be trodden over. Most importantly, we strive for honest communication (microscopic truths) that tries to address the message behind the message that is so often the problem in male/female relationships. There are many men out there who appreciate and respect strong, independent women, but you might have some things to work on in yourself before you find them.

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Name : Misho, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 36, City : Las Vegas, State : NV Country : United States, Occupation : Human Resources Analyst, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[Petra]

I am also an engineer, working mostly with men. I don't know if its because the working culture is different here in Scandinavia, but I don't see 'bitchy' women a problem here. Rather, which sometimes is even worse, we're supposed to be 'buddies' at work, like just men in womens' clothes or something. We're supposed to talk like guys do, to laugh at dull jokes, many only wear trousers. Of course, it's sometimes relaxing when you don't have to fit in a old-fashioned sex role, and it makes you feel like you're accepted as one of the team, as equal. I think that's what the male engineers want, to show that we're accepted and that they are modern men respecting the (strict, I think) Finnish equality legislation and culture. But, I think that is not the whole truth: they do not want to face the 'challenge' of females. They start feeling uncomfortable when I or some other women sometimes react differently to something, in a way that is in my opinion natural to females. This is a little bit difficult to explain... but I think I should have the right to be myself, meaning just a woman among men, other things equal: wear skirt and makeup (which I do), not to be forced to hear tasteless jokes, etc. One reason is that Finnish males are not taught normal politeness. In my opinion, it is good that people generally talk their mind straight rather than behind someone's back, but good manners still kind of acknowledge the other person's humanity. Am I right? What do you think? I spent last summer working in France and things were different there and I started thinking. It was just until I came back to Finland I didn't realize what was irritating me here. Men often literally slam the door to your face in Helsinki and seldom help your coat off. I loved to be a woman in France, even if the culture sometimes was just too chauvinist; we should perhaps find a middle way in the working culture?

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Name : Petra, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, Age : 23, City : Helsinki, State : NA Country : Finland, Occupation : Engineer, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[Henkka]

Dear Susan, Many men grew up in a family where daddy went to work and mama stayed home. Often daddy told mama while arguing:'I´m the one who brings money to this house!' You´ve seen how it effected kids who grew up to be men and I´m sure you know women who follow the same old story. Other reason might be you. If you want to have the `upper hand´ or control it´s normal that most people resist that. Gender doesn´t matter and I´m sorry if you think that way. Try to do things TOGETHER. A man who speaks his mind without hesitation is commonly known as dick or asshole. If you want these phrases be connected with women, suit your self.

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Name : Henkka, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Dogs have races, not men, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 25, City : Boca del Rio, State : NA Country : Finland, Occupation : student, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, 

[Kelly Dahilig]

I found this article interesting because this was a learning experience as far as fixing yourself. You look at the relationship, see what the problems are, and then reflect on yourself to see if as an individual you have the same problems.

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Name : Kelly Dahilig, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Hispanic/Latino (may be any race), Religion : Catholic, City : Northridge, State : CA Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, 

[Kelly Dahilig]

I found this article interesting because this was a learning experience as far as fixing yourself. You look at the relationship, see what the problems are, and then reflect on yourself to see if as an individual you have the same problems.

User Detail :  

Name : Kelly Dahilig, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : Hispanic/Latino (may be any race), Religion : Catholic, City : Northridge, State : CA Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, 

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