I just finished reading The Bell Curve, which states that of all the races, blacks have the lowest IQ. I know you can attribute this to supposed cultural biases, but why is it that blacks achieve such low scores on any tests they take?
User Detail :
Name : Rufus-M, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, City : Salterville, State : TN Country : United States, Occupation : Construction Manager, Education level : 4 Years of College, Since you are researching the topic, might I suggest reading Stephan Jay Gould's book The Mismeasure of Man. It is very scientific and blows holes in any discussion of race and intelligence.
User Detail :
Name : Steve27822, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 43, City : Houston, State : TX Country : United States, Occupation : Corporate Cubicle Guy, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class, I can't remember offhand who wrote The Bell Curve, but I do remember my physical anthropology professor telling my class that it was written by a renowned eugenicist. She recommended we read it for a laugh. It is not to be trusted.
User Detail :
Name : SR28504, Gender : F, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 22, City : Austin, State : TX Country : United States, Occupation : barista, Education level : 4 Years of College, I am skeptical that black people achieve low scores on ANY test they take, and I am highly suspicious - as any critical thinker should be -of the motives of the author of The Bell Curve. Secondly, I believe socioeconomics play an important - if not the most important -part in determining test performance. Poverty affects health, mental and emotional development, access to quality education, exposure to bad influences and a host of other factors that may result in low test performance. Unfortunately, a disproportionate number of people of color live on or below the poverty line. Studies corrected for socioeconomic status have disproven the notion that black people are inherently inferior mentally, and I don't believe that book of yours mentions these studies, sadly.
User Detail :
Name : TR24210, Gender : F, Race : Black/African American, City : Newark, State : NJ Country : United States, Occupation : Ph.D student, Isn't it funny you would ask this - I just read an article about this topic in the current (sports) issue of The New Yorker. Malcolm Gladwell, who is a fabulous thinker/essayist, wrote about why people sometimes 'choke' when the stakes are really high - in sports, academic life, whatever. He noted that when black kids are told they're being given a test to measure their IQ, they choke. When they're told the test is for statistical or research purposes only, they do exactly as well as non-blacks. He attributes this to self-fulfilling cultural expectations - the idea that stereotypes suggest they won't do well, so they don't. It wasn't clear in the article if this is because the kids unconsciously believe the stereotypes themselves, or just because they're so aware of them that they get really nervous. Interesting, though - it certainly supports the idea that their poor performance is not due to any kind of innate difference.
User Detail :
Name : Sue27754, Gender : F, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 33, City : Toronto, Ontario, State : NA Country : Canada, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, Is to understand that sociaty will always target the race that is minor to those who wrote the books and just like any historical file that is launch to sociaty by the white race. We as sociaty will always attack the minorities in this country,the question is who in the heck wrote every book that we quote Coño====
User Detail :
Name : Molina-Santiago, Gender : M, Race : Hispanic/Latino (may be any race), Religion : Catholic, Age : 38, City : Copperas Cove, State : TX Country : United States, Occupation : E.O.A MEDIATOR, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, The best reason to ignore the conclusions in The Bell Curve is the data it contains. It shows that, while the scores obtained differed by race, the range of scores for each race far exceeded the difference between them. In other words, many very bright blacks were measured as much more intelligent than many whites. This suggests - and there is more evidence for this emerging - that IQ measures are culture-bound. White Americans created the tests in their culture; inevitably they score better.
User Detail :
Name : Paul30501, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Wiccan, Age : 56, City : Brisbane, State : NA Country : Australia, Occupation : Academic, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, I read a similar article in The Atlantic regarding why blacks score poorly on standardized tests, even when adjusted for socioeconomic factors. The study found that if the test-takers were told that the test results would reflect the mental superiority of one racial group, the black test-takers became extremely stressed and scored lower because of this stress. When other test-takers were given the same test and were told that the test results would only give data on different test-taking techniques, the black test-takers scored equal to other groups. We often hear black people stating that they couldn't care less what white people think. However, this test seems to show that black people are very afraid of doing something that will prove a negative stereotype, and this fear can hurt their performance. Relating back to the original question, if it 'seems' that blacks have lower IQs, it is actually because they don't test well, which is due to stress from racial stereotyping.
User Detail :
Name : Carlton-B19250, Gender : M, City : Atlanta, State : GA Country : United States, When people do these supposedly scientific studies, I wonder if they really take all factors into consideration. If you'd like to look, overall, at all IQ scores, I would assume blacks would do poorer than whites. But I don't believe the reasons are racial or genetic. There is a large percentage of poverty in black families. Single mothers are out working trying to feed their children and often don't have the time or resources to sit and read books and teach ABCs. I wonder if two middle-class children of similar family structure, one white, one black, took IQ tests, if there would be any difference. I bet if you looked at all the scores from poor, working-class families as a whole, they would have lower scores - not because of race, but because of the lack of time parents can spend teaching their children, going over homework with them, etc.
User Detail :
Name : Anonymous, Gender : F, Age : 26, City : Southern, State : NJ Country : United States, Social class : Middle class, I couldn't agree more with what you're saying, Melodie. I can also provide some insight as to why those standardized tests are necessary, because I'm a high school teacher who has a lot of experience with standardized testing. Especially here in California, voters/politicians/etc. demand that schools be 'accountable' for our students' learning. This ends up being very messy because it's very difficult to test learning reliably, assuming we even know what 'learning' is or looks like. It seems to me that standardized tests favor those with good memories for details and some test-taking skill more than they really report whether anyone has 'learned' certain concepts or not. To me, learning involves synthesis and making connnections between ideas, disciplines, etc., and standardized tests can't really test this. Nor can they often test UNDERSTANDING. You can know an awful lot of facts about American history without really UNDERSTANDING it. I'm not sure I believe that real learning can be quantified. Also, since there are millions of kids, they have to use a form of test that's relatively easy to grade. You can't sit down individually with every kid and ask him/her, 'What do you know about grammar/spelling/vocabulary/history/literature?' The only way to show that a kid has 'learned' something is to show that s/he has higher test scores at the END of the year than at the beginning. And that's what the public seems to want to see--I'm not sure! They keep voting for that, anyway!!!!!! If only they would give me a smaller class and more time, I *would* be able to sit down with each kid individually. But with 5 classes of 35-40 students each, it's impossible. I'm lucky if I can get through a basic 2-page essay in one piece. This is an interesting site! I found it when I was looking for some materials on 'stereotypes' for my kids. j.
User Detail :
Name : Josephine, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Lesbian, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 33, City : San Francisco, State : CA Country : United States, Occupation : Teacher, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, Let me add my voice to those who are warning against The Bell Curve. It is very difficult to write a test with no cultural/socioeconomic bias. One famous example of such was a question that told how many rooms and how many bedrooms a house had and then asked how many people could sleep in it. An intelligence test I have given asks young kids to identify a speedometer. This is patently unfair to children whose parents do not have a car.
User Detail :
Name : Andrea K., Gender : F, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Catholic, Age : 40, City : Farmington, State : ME Country : United States, Occupation : teacher/musician, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, I can't agree with any of these responses. Over and over I have heard references to blacks cutting down other blacks who are intelligent or speak good English. Blacks seem to be accused of 'acting white' if they are interested in learning or if they speak clearly. Rapper/actor Will Smith, who is very well-spoken and intelligent, said he has been accused of trying to be white because he speaks well and has brains. And recently a book was written (by a black author) regarding how intelligence is frowned upon in the black community. Seems to me that blacks often keep themselves down because they are not accepted in their 'culture' if they have an interest in learning and/or they speak good English.
User Detail :
Name : Jay, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Gay, Age : 24, City : Asheville, State : NC Country : United States, Social class : Middle class, Just to let you know, the author(s) of The Bell Curve is a reputed racist. He has been picketed at Harvard University by world-reknowned professors and shot down academically by almost every certified eugenicist in the world who has came in contact with his work. Not to mention the fact that he is a purported member of a white-supremist organization. It's a piece of fiction, pseudoscience and, ultimately, racism. Also, to the woman who said that a 'majority of black people are below the poverty level,' This is untrue. Whites are the majority of poverty-strickened people in this country. Suprisingly, most blacks are not as poor as you claim.
User Detail :
Name : Impressive-Instant21382, Gender : M, Race : Black/African American, Age : 18, City : Gardena, State : CA Country : United States, Occupation : College Student, Education level : High School Diploma, I'm putting that book on my reading list to see for myself if what everybody says about it is true. As an educator in a mostly minority school district, I've seen my share of educational failures and successes. Unfortunately for blacks, it's more of the former than the latter. Based on my experience as well as my own examination of the research done on various cultural and ethnic groups in the United States, it seems that most of the theories that seek to explain low black test scores are not supported by empirical data. For example, it's become fashionable to justify poor black test scores based on blacks' higher poverty levels than whites. This theory suggests that low socioeconomic status is the biggest determining variable when it comes to test scores. Unfortunately, rich blacks going to affluent, mostly white schools do no better or worse than working-class whites in poor districts. Asians, among them Hmong and Mien from Laos and Cambodia (who incidentally have the highest percentage of welfare participation) routinely score as high or higher than affluent blacks and working-class whites (sometimes higher), even though they attend segregated minority schools. Any college freshman with a statistics class and Sociology 1A under his or her belt wouldn't buy that explanation. I wish that it were true, though, because my job as a teacher would be a lot easier: fighting for social justice on the basis of economics and class is an easier task than asking people to look at much more complicated issues surrounding ethnicity and culture. I've seen poor blacks come into class and just blow everyone out of the academic water; some, but not many. When they're on, they're on, but when they're off, they are really, really off. I've seen research that asked black college freshman what they were most afraid of. Surprisingly, school failure wasn't No. 1 (it was No. 2). Instead, the notion that college success would make them seem 'white' (and thus non-black) was their biggest fear. What can we do to understand that while money does matter in attaining successful educational outcomes, cultural factors seem to be far more powerful than many of us are willing to admit. If culture is that which drives academic achievement, what can we ALL do to come to terms with creating a shared culture that values all of our successes?
User Detail :
Name : Mark-F, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 28, City : Richmond, State : CA Country : United States, Occupation : Teacher, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class, I believe that pure black folk, those who are not polluted by cross-breeding with other races, are somewhat atavistic. It is not a fault of theirs, it is simply that they have not reached their potential intellectually. I'm sure they will, in time, and it could be several hundred years. I further believe that eugeneics plays a role in one's ability. The Orientials are superior, particularly the Japanese and Chinese, in most subjects. Look at the scores posted by their school children, and then look at the scores of the school children of the United States, and the black children of United States; they're even lower still. Most black folk will disagree with this, but I believe they are in denial. I have no qualms with admitting that Orientals are smarter than Caucasians. Blacks should not feel bad about some other race being superior, in intelligence, to them. It's not their fault; it's just the way it is.
User Detail :
Name : Bob F., Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, Age : 67, City : Tallahassee, State : FL Country : United States, Occupation : retired, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class, 
Dare To Ask Talk And News About Our Differences .
