Dare To Ask Talk And News About Our Differences - This topic has 19 replies, 19 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 10 months ago by
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- Is feminism dead? Why? How? Because it sure seems that way to me.
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Name : Nathan H., Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Methodist, Age : 16, City : St. Louis, State : MO Country : United States, Occupation : student, Education level : Less than High School Diploma, Social class : Middle class,It depends on how you define feminism, and who you are looking at. Do we define feminism as the struggle for women to get paid as well as men for the same job? That's still ongoing. Do we include the struggle to get taken as seriously as men, by both men and women? That's still ongoing. I suspect that people still in high school don't see a lot of the day-to-day stuff of feminism because there aren't active demonstrations and struggles in the daily news or on TV. That's because it's reached the point of everyday life now, instead of being news. Let me tell you a little about high school when I was your age: all the girls had to take Home Ec, and all the boys had to take shop. The only girls' sports teams were softball and field hockey. Very few girls took chemistry or physics, and the teachers for those classes never called on the few girls in the class. Counselors gave very different advice to boys applying for college than they did for girls. In phys ed classes, boys got to wear shorts and t-shirts, but girls had to wear special romper-style uniforms. Aptitude tests had, I kid you not, pink-colored answer sheets for girls and blue-colored ones for boys.Is your high school like that? If not, then feminism is still alive. If your girls' basketball team is playing in tournaments, your health sciences prep classes have equal numbers of girls and boys and the part-time jobs at fast food places that you hold after school pay equal minimum wages to guys and gals, then feminism is alive.
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Name : Kelly, Gender : F, Race : White/Caucasian, City : Austin, State : TX Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College,It's not dead, exactly, but dying, because the mainstream feminist movement focuses on the wrong problem. The real problem facing women today isn't that they don't have enough 'rights,' it's that they don't have enough 'worth,' and no amount of government-issued rights is going to fix that. In ancient times, women had intrinsic worth as the bearers of children - without an incredibly high birth rate, the high death rate threatened to wipe out the population. In the last 1,000 years or so - and explosively in the last couple of generations - the death rate fell and so did the minimum required birth rate. Now, women are not as necessary, as women, for the survival of society and the species. Most industrialized nations need just more than two children per couple to sustain the population. Women's unique biological gifts are, unfortunately, needed on a much smaller scale than in the past, and we have no choice but to seek our worth in other areas. The old patriarchal system may seem wrong to us, but it was right and required for survival centuries ago. Our modern challenge is to adapt society to technological reality. Feminism is at the point where it has done all it reasonably can on the policy level, and to keep yelling at Congress is unproductive. The only legitimate options are to either compete with men - on their terms without special benefits, and prove our worth - or else find what women CAN contribute to society that defines us as separate.User Detail :
Name : Nicole20046, Gender : F, Race : mixed race, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 22, City : New York, State : NY Country : United States, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Lower middle class,I hope feminism is dead, or at least on its way out. If there was ever one thing that can be identified as the cause of the decline in the moral fiber of this country, it is feminism. Broken families, whacked-out kids, you name it. Harsh, isn't it? More than a little truth to it, too. I'm sure sociologists have definitive answers to the problems faced in the United States throughout the 20th Century, and I would like to hear from them. Until then, women: don't have babies unless you and your husband or wife can support them financially. Have one parent be a stay-at-home mom or dad (whoever has the most economic earning power should work) to raise the child. Forget the third VCR, vacation home, seond vehicle, etc. and raise your kid yourself. Your kid needs a supportive network more than you need to buy all the newest gadgets and vacations requiring a two-income household. Forget competing with the Jones'.User Detail :
Name : Bill23267, Gender : M, Age : 43, City : Burlington, State : VT Country : United States, Social class : Middle class,I'm glad that you know what you want in life, because that's the beginning of bliss. Others perhaps will criticize your attitude, but I am only critical of a small part of it. Do you not want others to achieve happiness as well? I would be miserable as a debutante. I don't wear makeup because it's bad for my skin, and I don't dress up for boys because I am not interested in impressing anyone with my physical attributes. I prefer to focus on the intellectual pursuits in life. Does that make me right and you wrong? Certainly not. You do what makes you happy, and I'll do what makes me happy. Neither of us needs to convert or 'train' the other.User Detail :
Name : Jessica, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Bisexual, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Agnostic, Age : 23, City : Huntsville, State : TX Country : United States, Occupation : Student, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,Nathan, feminism is definately not dead. There are still some laws/policies in society that may be unfavorable to women, and these are brought to the govts attention eg no health coverage for birth control pills, but coverage for Viagra or the failures of many hospitals to full comply with the law to use a 'rape kit' (which collects all necessary evidence of rape) etc. Nicole, would you consider bans on reproductive services for poor women in 3rd world countries, obscurring of campus rapes by some colleges in favoring of maintaining their reputation, or unaffordable, inaccessible birth control all 'wrong problems' ??? If you think 'yelling at congress is unproductive' then how do you think you got the right to work, vote, own property, run a business and be considered a human being with full rights as a US citizen!!?? Bill, I do agree that many females have babies way too quickly with men they don't know well enough - but men also have sex way too quickly with women they don't know well enough. I truly believe it is best to wait until you can afford children before having them, so you're not struggling with 3 jobs and allowing your kids to hang out and get into trouble. Poor parenting has really nothing to do with feminism, and the alarming rate of men abandoning their kids is proof that both men and women can be terrible parents. Cynthia, feminists never said women should not stay home and be 'taken care of' they just want females to be able to chose between being taken care of, and taking care of themselves. Aren't you happy that you have that choice?! And if you're planning on not getting an education in favor of being taken care of your whole life, you'd better start spending some time on 'looking pretty' so that you'll be able to get and keep a man.User Detail :
Name : Jay31084, Gender : F, Race : White/Caucasian, City : New York, State : NY Country : United States, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,I think that you are over looking quite a bit when you tell parents to stay home with their kids rather than buying 'all the newest gadgets and vacations requiring a two-income household.' I agree that it is generally better for children when a parent stays home rather than putting the kids in daycare, but staying home is not always an option. Many families are two-income families, not because they want gadgets, vacations, new cars, and so on, but because they have developed a taste for living indoors, wearing clothing, and eating food. It's almost impossible for middle class people to live on one income in many areas of the country.User Detail :
Name : Lucy22446, Gender : F, Age : 27, City : San Jose, State : CA Country : United States, Occupation : Engineer, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,Why do people often want to make 'everybody else' the same as they are? Why can't people just live there own lives as they please and let others do the same? Are you one of these gals who're looking for Mr.Perfect only to try to change him? ;) There are probably as many kinds of feminism as there are women in the world. I find it hard to believe that any woman would WANT to be regarded as a lower species, the property of a man. It has been like that in the past, and when a woman aims to achieve something better than that, it's feminism, in my opinion. Anyway, about the 50's.. Isn't it dandy that all women don't want the same thing as you do, Cynthia? You can go on reading 'The Rules' and feeling happy that you are different from all those women you're 'appalled by'. Besides, in the end it doesn't matter what you teach girls - smart independent women find their own way that works for them in the end anyway! 'You're only as big as the things that make you angry'User Detail :
Name : Heidi, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 25, City : Helsinki, State : NA Country : Finland, Occupation : Application Specialist,I think feminism and civil rights have arrived at the same place. Both are still very much alive and very relevant (see Bill's post above) to society. However, the struggle for truly equal treatment is fought in much smaller battles now. The most significant enemy of feminism currently is time, because that is what it will take for the patriarchal threads of our society to dissolve. I must say to the previous poster that feminism has positive effects on today's youth, not negative ones. Just as 'two heads are better than one,' two genders are better as well. Now that another 50 percent of our population has been empowered, we are a better and stronger nation for it. Kids are 'whacked-out' for many reasons, but none of them have anything to do with feminism.User Detail :
Name : Jeremy, Gender : M, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 27, City : Dallas, State : TX Country : United States, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,Well, it's a sure thing that feminism isn't dead, if rhetoric under its banner is what you mean. But feminism is like many other idealogies. To claim that only good or only bad has come of it is to fall to the cliches of a particular institution. Sure, many kids ARE in fact whacked out because of things called 'feminist,' but it's not nearly the worst thing that kids have been whacked out upon these days. Good things have arisen from what we call 'feminism' today, obviously the woman's right to vote, for instance, but the name that we have assigned to sensible civil rights rhetoric is inappropriate. Demanding equality should be classified as rhetoric for civil rights, not feminism. The term 'feminist' is linguistically the same as any masculine equivalent, such as 'male patriot' or what not. And, as with practically any movement, there are ridiculous arguments to be found within feminism. For example, it is completely hypocritical to one day rant and rave about how unjust it is for men to be paid more because of their 'social roles' (and I'm not saying that it is just), and then the next day claim that women should be given more sick days because of THEIR 'social roles.' One cannot have her cake and eatit too. So yeah, if you're going to have a child, put the child ahead of your income and your status as part of the work force. People need to raise their children. One parent should stay home. And yes, some if not many feminists are little girls who never grew up, marching on the streets with their signs and having a good time,but not all of them are, and we cannot blame moral decline on any one thing, whether we agree with it or not. As with any group, you can find sensible people who call themselves 'feminist.' To quote a soprano I was working with once, 'No, don't put me in a box. Don't equate me with the PSYCHOfems.' The problem we encounter is that people themselves are ridiculous, not just those who are in a camp that we disagree with.User Detail :
Name : Matt, Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Age : 22, City : Chattanooga, State : TN Country : United States, Occupation : Music, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Middle class,You say that you think life would be better if we all went back to the days of Donna Reed and June Cleaver, but you don't say why. I would like to see you elaborate the reasons behind your idealized view of this period in American history. Is it possible that this is simply what you were raised to believe? I don't mean to sound patronizing or offend you, but is it possible that you find the modern world with all its perils just a little intimidating and want to go back to a time when the choices were less diverse and confusing? Have you had less success than you'd like finding a carreer or love and wish it could just flow together more naturally, instead of getting caught up in power negotiations? I'm not saying your positions are wrong, just that your statement of them was unpersuasive. Give me a good reason I should go back to the time you idealize and give up all that I see as gain.User Detail :
Name : J-French21285, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 24, City : Houston, State : TX Country : United States, Occupation : unemployed, Education level : 4 Years of College, Social class : Lower class,You're -16-! Hardly anything is the way it seems to you right now. As long as there are women, there will be feminism. And I'll wrestle any man who says otherwise.User Detail :
Name : j21146, Gender : F, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Atheist, Age : 34, City : chicago, State : IL Country : United States, Occupation : Healthcare, Social class : Middle class,Some short questions - should women also be taught that their brain is too weak and fragile to handle maths and sciences? How about that it's sinful to enjoy sex? Do you really have no understanding for some girls finding the life of a house-wife not down their lane? Don't get me wrong - I like feeling feminine, I like dressing up in long dresses and smiling demurely at boys. I like being able to cook up delicious food, and I do want to get married some day. But I also like knowing that I have the right to be enraged if someone implies I can't understand something because of my gender. I like that I can go into whatever career I want, and pursue any interest I want. I like that teachers take me seriously in maths and science when I display abilities equal to any of the boys'. That is why I don't want to go back to the 50s.User Detail :
Name : Ingrid, Gender : F, City : Torquay, State : NA Country : United Kingdom,Although I do not agree with your thoughts there is nothing wrong with wanting what you want. It becomes wrong when you try to force your wants and desires on to someone else or when you ridicule someone else's dreams and choices. That is the wonderful thing about feminism it gives women options. You have the option to look pretty for the boys, to look pretty for yourself, or to roll out of bed and go to class looking not so pretty. But to say you are appalled by another women's choice-that is appalling in itself. Every women should have the right to choose her own path in life and do whatever makes her happy. If being married and looking pretty is what makes you happy then you should do that and you should do it with pride. But you should never ever degrade another women (or man) for going after what makes them happy. Image yourself in a world were looking pretty and being married and taken care of was not an option. Where you were ridiculed and degraded for having those types of dreams and goals. Imagine your only option being to go to school get a degree and work full time. That is a world without feminism. A world were women don't have the right to pursue their goals and live there dreams. And women do not go to university to take over a man's job, they go to make themselves better people and to reach their dreams. The same way you want to look pretty so you can find a boy and get married and live your dream. Feminism is all about women having options to do whatever it is you want go to university, work, get married, have babies. Feminism is not about forcing your opinions on others and if someone has made you think that is what being a feminist is about I am very sorry. Feminist only want women to be equal-not superior.User Detail :
Name : Holly, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 25, City : St. Louis, State : MO Country : United States, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class,Feminism is not dead and it never will be. Nor is it the cause for loss of morals in our country. Feminism by definition is equality for men and women. That means women being equal to men in the workplace and men being equal to women in regards to child rearing. I completely agree that we need to pay more attention to our children but blaming feminism is sending the wrong message to them. If you would read feminist literature or visit a website like National Organization for Women you would see that feminist want to bring back the morals you talk about. We want families to be strong and children to have every advantage they can. Wanting equal rights for our daughters is not the reason that parents get divorced and kids become 'whacked out'. So many people are quick to blame women when something bad happens within the family but what about the men-the husband and father? He is equally responsible. I know plenty of men who have conceived a child with a women and then was no where to be found. So please do not just send your message about responsible parenting to women only. It takes two to create a child and those two people need to raise the child together. Feminism will be alive and well until women are seen as equal to men, not inferior or superior. When women are equal in government, the workplace, home, and school. When people realize it is not OK to make offensive comments about women or to look at us like we are sex objects and treat women like the only things they are good for is cooking, cleaning, sex and baby making then maybe feminism will start to be on 'its way out'. But until then for mine, my sisters, my daughters, and granddaughters sake feminism will remain strong.User Detail :
Name : Holly, Gender : F, Sexual Orientation : Straight, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : Christian, Age : 25, City : St. Louis, State : MO Country : United States, Education level : 2 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class,
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