[Denis F. C.]

Why are the administrative leaders of the Boy Scouts of America - an organization built on Christian principles - against providing even the basic social rights of gay children and adults in the Scouting organization?

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Name : Denis F. C., Gender : M, Race : White/Caucasian, Religion : New Age/Metaphysical, Age : 60, City : Rochester, State : NH Country : United States, Occupation : housing developer, Education level : Over 4 Years of College, Social class : Upper middle class, 

[Steve27852]

Whether the Boy Scouts are adhering to Christian principles or not is irrelevant - as is the debate on Christianity and homosexuality as well. The point is that a voluntary private organization should be allowed to organize its membership around whatever principles it wishes, even foolish ones, as long as they don't force their views on the unwilling. Society should jealously guard the rights of groups to congregate around whatever principles they hold dear, no matter if others don't like those same principles. After all, Baptist Churches do not have to give due time to Judaism, the NAACP advocates for 'colored people' only and NOW doesn't have to accept as members beer swilling, billy bob, NASCAR drivers. If the Scouts don't want to admit gays, so be it, and don't join. It's their loss, and honestly, when social groups start to go outside of society's mainstream norms, their membership begins to dwindle naturally, anyway (which is already happening to the Scouts.)

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[Brian22988]

Your post seems to assume that the fundamentals of Christianity accept homosexuality, or at least homosexuals. I'm not sure that they do or do not, but obviously those leaders in the Scouting organization who oppose allowing homosexuals in do not share that assumption. In fact, they probably use the same Bible to which you refer as a reason to not allow homosexuals into the organization. Things don't change much. It was the same with slavery, women voting, and every war we've ever fought.

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[Marc22341]

Probably because this organization is run by very conservative, right-wing people who believe homosexuality is learned, or that the children will 'catch the gay disease.' They are afraid of the possibility of children in the group going to their parents and telling them they are gay and the parents blaming the Scouts for 'making their children gay.' Intolerance still runs rampant throughout our society, and the Boy Scouts are no exception. They are going to lose millions in funding from several groups that supported them until this bigoted stance. It especially hurts children in more rural areas who may only have a few options for social interaction with other children.

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[Lucy-H22651]

Jesse, You stated that 'In an all-male group, it is relatively easy to ensure that there is no heterosexual activity, but the only way to exclude homosexual activity is to exclude those who practice it. I support the position of the BSA. Now that I'm a parent, I would not entrust my sons to the care of a gay scout leader. It's as simple as that.' As a parent you have the right and the obligation to determine who you will entrust your children to and who you wont, and if you don't want your children around gays, then that is certainly your perogative. But I do have a couple questions about your stance. If you had a daughter, would you entrust her to the care of a gay man? And, should the parents of your daughter's friends entrust their daughters to your care?

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[Jesse-N30786]

I'm an Eagle Scout, and I've kept slightly in touch with BSA activities. First, I know of no connection between the BSA (or the international parent organization) and any denomination of Christianity or Christian principles. As a Jew, I would not have joined the BSA if there had been any connection. Perhaps the BSA's principles are generally compatible with mainline Christian principles, but I never detected any religious tone in the BSA. In my opinion (and I do not represent the BSA), the simple reason that the BSA does not accept scouts or leaders known to be gay is that parents are entrusting boys and young men at a delicate age, and they want and expect that the BSA will rigorously establish and protect an environment free from sexual activity. In an all-male group, it is relatively easy to ensure that there is no heterosexual activity, but the only way to exclude homosexual activity is to exclude those who practice it. I support the position of the BSA. Now that I'm a parent, I would not entrust my sons to the care of a gay scout leader. It's as simple as that.

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[Sophia]

To Jesse:
'I support the position of the BSA. Now that I'm a parent, I would not entrust my sons to the care of a gay Scout leader. It's as simple as that.'

Very simple, indeed. Bigotry is always simple, by definition. Gay men are 'simply' untrustworthy, as a group. What could be simpler ... or more corrosively prejudiced? Are atheists and agnostics also untrustworthy? Are the Scouts afraid they will 'un-convert' the children? Am I justified in refusing to entrust my teenage daughter to be taught by heterosexual men, or my son by heterosexual women? I'm not talking about whether the scouts have the legal right to discriminate, but whether it is ethically right.

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[Laura22974]

While it is correct that a volunteer organization can pick and choose who can be a member, the BSA relies heavily on support from public institutions (i.e. they recruit heavily at public schools and use public school facilities for their meetings and events) and from funding from public charitable organizations like the United Way. If the BSA is going to practice discrimination, it has no right to use the public schools and public money as a support system, any more than any other discriminatory organization does. If it wants to exclude gays, fine, but it isn't going to use my tax money to do it. And incidentally, this practice seems to be unique to the United States. The Boy Scouts of Canada don't practice this kind of exclusion, and neither to the Girl Scouts anywhere. Perhaps the BSA should remember that pretty much every gay person grew up in a straight household and wasn't converted to another sexual orientation, and also that more than 90 percent of convicted pedophiles are heterosexual males. I'd much rather have my two sons be around kind people who happen to be gay than around straight people who think it's all right to moralize and point fingers and practice discrimination against people who aren't just like them.

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[Stacey L.]

The Boy Scouts are relying on an old policy that might not even have meant what they are interpreting it as - that members must be 'morally straight' - because they don't want to actually have to deal with it. I have been involved with Girl Scouts for 15 years (since I was 5), and their policy is that sexual orientation has nothing to do with Girl Scouts, which makes much more sense. I have gotten to know quite a few lesbians through Girl Scouts, and it was never an issue. I worked at Girl Scout summer camps with counselors who were lesbians, and several of the women who worked for the council were homosexual. It wasn't something I learned until after I had known all of them for a while, and it made no difference whether I knew or not. It's not like they were about to start making passes at the girls, no more than a heterosexual woman helping with a Boy Scout pack would be expected to make passes at the boys. There are no grounds for people to be banned from Scouting because of their sexual orientation, and the Boy Scouts need to realize this.

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Name : Stacey L., Gender : F, Age : 20, City : Durham, State : NH Country : United States, Occupation : student, 

[Ethan J.]

The Boy Scouts share the same flawed belief that Jesse N. has about gays. Gays are no more likely to molest boys than heterosexual men. Probably gays are less likely to be pedophiles. To say a gay scout leader will molest other scouts is homophobic propaganda. It would seem that if so many gays are pedophiles, there ought to be more stories about them in the news than there are about heterosexual men, including priests, photographing or molesting boys and girls. Finally, the possibility of a gay scout molesting a hetersexual scout is almost non-existent. Hetersexual boys harass girls far too often, but society often allows it to continue unchecked, or a small punishment is handed out. For a gay scout to harass a heterosexual would bring condemnation, physical threats and retaliation in today's homophobic society. A gay boy grows up in a hateful society and has perhaps the best perspective of anyone to understand what harassment feels like. Because of this, a gay scout would nearly never harass or molest a heterosexual scout.

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[Nick20006]

This queston kind of bridges into religon. Homosexuality is not supported by Chritians. Therefore they feel it is their 'moral' duty not to allow basoc American rigths based on sexual prefences and permit their personal ideals to intermigal with something that it should not.

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Name : Nick20006, City : Severson, State : CA Country : United States, 

[H.]

While it is true that private organizations may discriminate, the BSA receives countless privileges including public funding, exclusive recruiting rights in public schools during school hours, and free admission to national and state parks and forests for which everyone else must pay. If all these undue privileges are removed, the scouts can continue to hurt as many children as they like. A separate issue than the legal right to discriminate, however, is the immorality and harm to children of all orientations caused by the policy. By teaching children ignorance and hatred the BSA does America a great disservice.

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[H.]

Saying that you would not want your child to have a gay scout leader assumes that gay people are likely to abuse children. In fact, statistically the people most likely (in percentage and absolute terms) to abuse children are heterosexual fathers who are married to women. If anything, gay people are far less likely to abuse children, given a hyper-awareness of the stereotype that they are somehow deviant. The bigotry you express is horrifying and unjustified. It is also harmful to gay children, whose sense of self-esteem is damaged; heterosexual children, who are taught to be bigoted against minorities; and society at large. Gay kids are no more likely to be sexually active than heterosexual kids. Is it OK for den mothers to abuse scouts because that is heterosexual sex? How would you feel if Jewish people were excluded from being scout leaders based on a stereotype that they would steal the students' lunch money or that they drink the blood of children (an old European stereotype about Jews) or that they would try to convert them? It's the same thing; I can't believe a resident of Israel would believe such views.

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[Hunt]

I think most parents are just uncomforable about leaving their boys with Gay scout leaders. It may be discriminatory, it may not. Some think that because the leader is gay and attracted to men that they will somehow touch their son. That's like saying, "I babysit my nieces, and because I am a male attracted to women, I'm going to touch them." Get over it. For example, my wife has a very good male friend who is gay. I felt very uncomfortable one night when he offered to babysit our son, but because of the situation, I had no choice. Now he's the only one I call because he is very trustworthy. I guess it's all based on trust.

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